Engine won't start- Failing HPFP?

[ScotVan]

Hi, I've got 17 plate 2.0L Diesel (CXGB) T6 that has decided it doesn't want to start now. There's no fault codes coming up. I suspect the HPFP is to blame. I've got a known EGR valve fault that's been on my to do list to fix, but I don't think this is causing the starting issue. The EGR valve is shut during start (2%) but only opens to 66% when commanded. I believe this is what's giving me a recirc flow DTC.

I've just done the fuel filter, turns out it hadn't been done since 2017 courtesy of the the previous owners. I had an injector fail a couples weeks ago which I thought was a one-off, so I replaced it and coded the new one in. Didn't think much more of it. The van stalled a week after randomly. Soon after that it ran rough and then died completely whilst driving later that day. Now I think it might have been caused by the HPFP degrading. Possibly starved by a blocked 8 year old fuel filter. I'm now getting a some weird readings with the fuel rail pressure which I thinks might be causing the ECU to abort the start. There's a active warning for Sporadic reedings in the engine. I'm only getting 270 to 360 Bar on the fuel rail, granted it's only turning over at 220ish RPM.

I've attached some log csv files and the block file for some logs I did today and I'm hoping to get a second opinion.

I'm going to source a new pump and EGR this weekend.

I'm interested to hear if anyone has seen the same or similar issues?
Thanks.

 

[The Flying Scotsman]

The high pressure fuel pump on my T5.1 works van just died. A new Bosch one was £850
I near shit a brick
Got mine reconditioned by a place in Aberdeen who sent off to Germany for the parts for it.
Cost me £600
Then had to replace the sensor and regulator also.
Make sure all your fuel lines have been cleaned if it is the pump.

 

[ScotVan]

Yeah, I don't see this being a cheap and easy fix. One minor upside is that I now have a reason to do the EGR at the same time. I'm hoping the lines are mostly clear and that some of the injectors are okay.

 

[mmi]

I suspect the HPFP is to blame.

I'm only getting 270 to 360 Bar on the fuel rail, granted it's only turning over at 220ish RPM.

That's normal pressure when cranking. Based on your logs (containing 3 tries to start the engine) nothing wrong with fuel pressure.

which I thinks might be causing the ECU to abort the start.

In the logs injectors are commanded to fire thus ECU is not aware of anything prohibiting engine to start.

There's a active warning for Sporadic reedings in the engine.

Please elaborate.

 

[ScotVan]

Yeah, I'm still not completely certain it's the fuel pump but at this point I can't really see any other issues from the logs. Timing all appears fine. Belts all look fine. No blown fuses that I've found.

I somewhat agree given that the pumps capable of achieving a pressure above 250Bar but based on the data I see in the logs it doesn't look all that healthy. On the first log I did the pump failed to reach 250Bar in less the 0.5s. It's pressure also varies massively. 360Bar to 270bar in 0.2s doesn't look like a consistent flow. The fuel rail also doesn't hold any pressure between starts, another issue in of it's self possibly due to a dodgy regulator. So, that's where I'm at with it currently. The way it occurred also leads me towards the pump. It stalled a couple times, the revs would intermittently drop while idling, and then on the day it died it developed a rough idle and then completely died.

There's a line in the block map which has peaked my interest.

IDE03583-MAS04416 Engine shut-down overrides-Sporadic function prevention On

I might be misinterpreting this line but it reads to me that the ECU has seen some sporadic engine parameter that is out with it's normal operating parameters and the only sporadic reading I can see is the fuel rail pressure being anything but steady. I've seen other logs where the rail pressure is pretty much within a couple Bar of each reading.

If you've got any other thoughts or possible tests I can run I'd be very grateful for your input MMI. I've seen your name a few times on this forum so I'm keen to hear your thoughts on this.

Thanks.

 

[mmi]

The way it occurred also leads me towards the pump. It stalled a couple times, the revs would intermittently drop while idling, and then on the day it died it developed a rough idle and then completely died.

Have you already checked the pump for metal deposits?

On the first log I did the pump failed to reach 250Bar in less the 0.5s. I

But almost. Anyways, ECU fires the injectors below 150 bar.

360Bar to 270bar in 0.2s doesn't look like a consistent flow.

Hmm... based on my logs looks normal -

The fuel rail also doesn't hold any pressure between starts, another issue in of it's self possibly due to a dodgy regulator.

This seems to be how it works.

Start up fault

Hi again, I'm trying to record my van when in fault with my new VCDS. I think the attached might show the fault? The problem is the fault doesn't present every start up. Once when I was trying to record it the VCDS just displayed n/a in every column. I've ticked the boxes that delmassive...

www.t6forum.com

Intermittent starting issue

The only electrical connection to the HPFP is the fuel metering valve. Thanks, is that something that can be logged at all to help see if it's working correctly?

www.t6forum.com

There's a line in the block map which has peaked my interest.

IDE03583-MAS04416 Engine shut-down overrides-Sporadic function prevention On

I might be misinterpreting this line but it reads to me that the ECU has seen some sporadic engine parameter that is out with it's normal operating parameters

I wish I had a decent explanation for this. Indeed the "IDE03583-MAS04416" has been seen as "On" on non-starters, e.g. in posts below

Won’t start. No fault codes

Quote from WSM. (Download above) Lock high-pressurepump hub with diesel injection pumplock‐ ing pin- T10492- . Todo this,insert lockingpin intofork -2-on hub and into hole -1- behind it in bracket for ancillaries. – Pull out locking pin, and slightly loosen nut for high-pressure pulley. Before...

www.t6forum.com

Won’t start [Resolved]

And dont forget the full bsttery reset.. And check all the fuses.

www.t6forum.com

However, on the latter it was still "On" 2000 miles after being back on the road - so must assume it's not preventing engine to start.

---

Just curious why the air mass is not zero in the logs?

Anyways, won't prevent engine to start.

 

[ScotVan]

Hi all, thanks again for the help with this. It's proving to be a real stubborn and somewhat hidden fault. But, I think I might have found something.

I pulled a couple HP fuel lines off and cranked it but I didn't see any obvious debris in the fuel, it looked clear. For sanity's sake I'm gonna pull the metering valve off the HPFP for a look next. Probably tomorrow. So that's promising that it may not be the HPFP. Assuming there isn't any debris on the metering valve screen I'd be tempted to start looking at other things. I know the lift pump works, tested that with VCDS and the feed pipe disconnected.

I have noticed that my timing values are different to others I’ve found on here, which I find very odd. I’ve found a couple other blockmaps from other threads which have vastly different figures with respect to engine timing than I do. My Main Timing Demand/ Main Injection: Start of Activation is 0.484°, whereas others I’ve seen are between -3° to -6°. I’m going to check the timing this weekend by refitting the locks. Hopefully this will give me something to go on. I’m starting to wonder if the tensioner has slipped or something.

My blockmap figures:



Others:

 

[mmi]

My Main Timing Demand/ Main Injection: Start of Activation is 0.484°, whereas others I’ve seen are between -3° to -6°.

I would guess the others were captured engine running?

For the ENG103817 I have recorded values from -8.141 to 2.672 degrees engine running (while driving thus various load conditions)
Engine stopped seems to be at 0...+1.8 deg (not many logs)

 

[ScotVan]

I would guess the others were captured engine running?

For the ENG103817 I have recorded values from -8.141 to 2.672 degrees engine running (while driving thus various load conditions)
Engine stopped seems to be at 0...+1.8 deg (not many logs)

That would make sense. I did the map with the engine off. Hmm. Back to drawing board then. Well, I’ll see how the metering valve looks tomorrow. After that, I’ve got a few more things I can check. Thanks again for the help.

 

[mmi]

Have you done compression test?

Below some desperate thoughts -

Won’t start. No fault codes

Thank you very much Catfood12 I will certainly do that tomorrow and let you guys know how we get on I don't think you'll see anything, as the injection duration is at zero. When you said earlier it starts and runs on Easy Start, do you mean you have to keep feeding on Easy Start to keep it...

www.t6forum.com

 

[ScotVan]

I've not actually. Good shout. I'll have a look at the one via VCDS and see if I can see anything obvious here. Then potentially take the injectors out and test it. Probably scope the cylinders too while they're out.

I'm assuming based on the what you've seen in the logs and beacuse the injectors are opening that you think there's maybe a timing related issue stopping the engine from starting. Like this thread you posted? I'll stick the timing tools on this weekend and see if theres any issues there. I've not long done the top end on the van so if that's away again I'll not be very happy. New camshaft module with a new cam belt fitted. I'll have a look at the data coming from the camshaft and the crankshaft sensor.

I did find a thread where the guy had no codes and his van stalled because the EGR wasn't communicating with the ECU. A possibility in my case and reason for it not to start.

I won't have much time to look at it until the weekend now unfortunately. I'll keep updating the thread with any new findings.

Thanks.

 

[mmi]

beacuse the injectors are opening that you think there's maybe a timing related issue stopping the engine from starting.

The ECU is happy with timing and other conditions because it fires the injectors (as seen in the data). However, ECU firing the injectors does not guarantee that the injectors actually squirt fuel. Any diesel smell in the exhaust after cranking?

T6 wont start

Hi Some tip here? T6 2017 / transporter / multivan want start. 150000 km. 36000kpa on fuelrail. Injectors not fires of / no diesel ouf of them. Does someone had the same problem? Drove long distance, then it started running on 3 cylinders then 2 cylinders and stopped completely. The OEM...

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Also the blockmap data suggests the timing seem by the ECU is good - below

IDE00182

Camshaft adaptation intake bank 1: phase position

0.3​

°

Have you tried disconnecting camshaft position sensor to see if the engine then starts - as described in

Won’t start. No fault codes

Thank you very much Catfood12 I will certainly do that tomorrow and let you guys know how we get on I don't think you'll see anything, as the injection duration is at zero. When you said earlier it starts and runs on Easy Start, do you mean you have to keep feeding on Easy Start to keep it...

www.t6forum.com

 

[ScotVan]

Hi again. Sorry for the lack of an update over the past few days. I’ve been rather busy.

So I’ve removed the HPFP metering valve and it looked almost spot less. A couple metal flakes maybe 0.25 - 0.50 of a mm. Nothing overly concerning just now, but may warrant further investigation in future.

I’ve removed the EGR valve and cooler. The cooler was completely blocked. So it’s now being replaced. Should hopefully fix one issue.

I’ve also managed to check the timing. It’s definitely not in time. I think the culprit might be the timing belt tensioner. My own fault for buying a cheap set I suppose, but it looks like it’s moved out with the limits. This might explain why I’ve not got any codes or why it’s not starting. Potentially the reason for all my troubles but an issue nonetheless.

The tension indicator has shifted since it was fitted.

With the top pin fitted the crank lock seems to be half the pins width out.

Sorry for the terrible photos.

Next steps will be to refit the EGR. Install a new intake manifold seal because the old ones leaking. I’ll drain and check the fuel rail to see if there’s any obvious debris in there while looking at the manifold. Then retime everything and see if it starts.

 

[ScotVan]

So quick update. It’s been a while, but at long last I think I’ve found the culprit. It is indeed the dreaded HPFP. Chased my tail a bit with the timing hoping it wasn’t the pump. Not the case unfortunately. I’ve also replaced the EGR valve and cleaned the cooler. One small victory.

I’ve taken the fuel rail off, emptied it, and it’s absolutely filled with glitter. New fuel pump time. I’m thinking I’ll probably need to replaced the HPFP, lift pump, filter, sensor, regulator, and flush/clean the fuel tank and lines to be on the safe side. Oh the joys. I’ve also heard the fuel tanks a bit of a pig to get out.

Any tips for replacing and flushing the system are appreciated. I’ll keep reading the forums and ordering parts in the meantime. Keep you posted.

 

[ScotVan]

I've finally remembered to close this out this thread. I've finally got the van back on the road after doing the full fuel system. It's taken a lot or work to get it sorted but it's finally done. Even had some time to get the sump off and do the front crankshaft seal.