180 dsg 4 motion issues

[garryproffitt@hotmail.co.]

Hi
New to the forum but i could offer some good help
Its a long read so get a coffee or a beer
Had my vw transpoerter 180 dsg 4 motion from new. At 48k i decided to replace egr cooler and cam belt and do a dsg gearbox oil and filter change. Not the easiest job to do the egr cooler but i did it over Xmas hols
It went all ok but at 50 k i had issues. I only replaced the egr cooler due to horror stories. i knew my van would be ok as i warm it up well and do good 15 mile runs at least
So at 50k. It was a cold foggy snow slushy drive home about 2 years ago. Drove less than a mile and the flashing glowplug light came on. Tried my scanner to switch it off but it would but soon came back along with the eml light and a year later dpf light. Yes i did not fix it and suffered limp mode for 2 years until i had time to move my project to get my lovely mint t5.1 in my garage. Nothing serious was wrong with my van and no engine damage would occur so i suffered 30mph up hills etc for 2 years or a bit more
Last week it came to bits. I had many opinions but always thought turbo. They said leaks on vacuum and intercooler and valves etc and dpf etc etc but my scanner while running showed none of that. I did buy 2 n75 valves as mine is bi turbo and also a boost sensor but no change
So what a nasty job to get the turbos off on a 4 motion. You just cant reach anything from top or below but i managed in the end. I was gutted to see there was not much play in the wastegate on the turbo. A bit but nothing to worry about. So my thoughts were slowly being eaten away. The small turbo i cant check to see if its spinning but all seemed fine. No play or side thrust in the shaft on either turbo. i noticed the manifold after the small turbo was very sooty. So i blew an irline down the exhaust manifold and the compressor turbine did not spin. I tried a few times and in the end took the turbo apart. The exhaust turbine had snapped clean off. There was no play in the shaft and bearings and the oil supply were both perfect
Decided to use ebay and to my surprise there was a complete manifold with turbos etc etc that had only done 500 miles and sat in his garage. Sure enough they looked like new so i bought them. Fitted it all back up which takes some time and effort on a 4 motion. Reset the lights but the dpf would not reset even though no faults were found. Tried to do a dpf regen but one sensor would only just get in range and before the regen it dropped out of range again. So i went on a slow run still in limp mode and still no good. Put scanner on and told it to reset values as i had fitted 2 new dpf filters. Lights went out. Tried giving it a few stationary revs and the figures were good
Test drive to work next day. Wow Shes alive again . It seemed fast to be honest even when i went slow as i always warm up engines well before normal driving. Van fixed and it seemed better than new. next day eml light came on again. Out with scanner and luckily it was the o2 sensor thinking its running rich. Probably full of soot from doing nothing for 2 years. So i reset it and went again on a run in sports mode. Its been fine since after 300 miles. I might sell the van but its running so well and i know it inside out i might stick with it
While i was there i also fitted anew haldex pump and filter for the 4wd . God only knows when that stopped working. So a busy 2 weeks at night but all is well now and its doing 3 mpg more so i dont know if it was bad from new. Checked bores and compression also as i was doing the work. All mint and equal so i cant say 180 engines are bad. Mine uses about 150ml of oil per 1000 miles so with 2 turbos thats not bad at all. Yes i recon the coolers are an issue but also driving gentle until it warms up ok. I read a post some Norweigen ambulances all needed new engines but they get thrashed from cold often. I am sure if the egr cooler is ok and you warm it up careful they are great engines. Also i do my oil and filter every 6k instead of 10k with castrol edge fully synthetic
Never seen a turbo shaft snap on such a small turbo but the shaft is hollow and looked very thin. In my years of knowledge i recon as it was such a cold foggy winters night it froze up. then when running the ice expanded and snapped the shaft. The heat shield behind it was marked and dished which is normally perfectly flat
Might keep it but not sure yet. It rips and drives like a car and its comfy but i have my ex met police sprinter van so i will decide over the next few months which one i will sell
My main point is nothing is wrong with the 180 engines that have been looked after. Warm them up well as they take ages to get to temp from a cold start and im sure you will have no problems. Im here if you need any help as i feel i know these vans well after all my trouble

 

[venables]

Hi, have you cut your old EGR cooler open to examining how much corrosion has taken place hence how much-corroded alloy has already entered the bores to destroy them prior to fitting the new EGR cooler?
This should help you in your decision about which van to get rid of my money is on the VW going if it has suffered corrosion, as even a very small amount of metal loss will have caused damage to the bores, pistons, injectors, and all downstream components including turbos and DPF.
I have had five180 CFCA bi-turbo vans they all got thrashed from the gate and I had no issues with them, driven them through Germany a few times flat out with one tone in the back the limiter kicked in at 120 mph but only doing 17 mpg with no problems I admire you for being able to hold back and let them warm up and also give it a moment to cool down which is definitely the correct thing to do I wish I could have the patience to follow your example.
You are very correct there is nothing major wrong with this engine apart from the poor design of the EGR cooler most of the problems stem from that and again you are correct about how the vehicle is driven and how often the oil is changed affects certain components and their life span.
Hence my opinion on what affects the amount of corrosion on this EGR cooler, the more exhaust gas you pass through the cooler the quicker it will block or corrode so the more time spent at tick-over, eg in traffic around town, letting it warm up in the drive, running the engine for heat, or to charge the battery while stationary not using the start-stop if you have it, EGR valve passing through carbon build-up on the valve or seat, short journeys infrequent use, will all increase cooler corrosion leading to shorter engine life when the throttle is open the EGR valve is closed so no exhaust gas passing through the Cooler causing more corrosion and depositing the alloy particles in the cylinders to cause the destruction to cylinders, pistons, injectors, valves, and turbos.
The only CFCA engine that failed was driven hard for the first two years with not a single fault like all the others, but then was used predominantly around town on short journeys
left ticking over in the drive warming up and thawing out most mornings the stop-start was also turned off all the things needed to increase the corrosion in the EGR cooler and deliver the pieces of corroded alloy into the combustion chambers to wreak havoc.
The theory is the alloy particles become aluminum oxide which is an excellent abrasive and all the elements exist for this but more likely the alloy pieces melt in the extreme temperatures of the combustion chamber and stick to the cylinder walls, pistons, piston rings, injector nozzles this breaks the lubrication oil film between cylinder wall piston and rings leading scoring due to the lack of lubricant all downhill after that low compression, high oil consumption fouled injectors leading to poor fuel delivery and melted piston crowns and eventual failure

 

[DXX]

IMO is suspect the most serious EGR cooler degradation takes place after the EGR valve has fouled enough to not close and seal. This will allow a constant flow of exhaust gases under all running conditions.
Having taken steps to eliminate this I can say that there was a very noticeable increase in performance afterwards.

 

[garryproffitt@hotmail.co.]

Hi, have you cut your old EGR cooler open to examining how much corrosion has taken place hence how much-corroded alloy has already entered the bores to destroy them prior to fitting the new EGR cooler?
This should help you in your decision about which van to get rid of my money is on the VW going if it has suffered corrosion, as even a very small amount of metal loss will have caused damage to the bores, pistons, injectors, and all downstream components including turbos and DPF.
I have had five180 CFCA bi-turbo vans they all got thrashed from the gate and I had no issues with them, driven them through Germany a few times flat out with one tone in the back the limiter kicked in at 120 mph but only doing 17 mpg with no problems I admire you for being able to hold back and let them warm up and also give it a moment to cool down which is definitely the correct thing to do I wish I could have the patience to follow your example.
You are very correct there is nothing major wrong with this engine apart from the poor design of the EGR cooler most of the problems stem from that and again you are correct about how the vehicle is driven and how often the oil is changed affects certain components and their life span.
Hence my opinion on what affects the amount of corrosion on this EGR cooler, the more exhaust gas you pass through the cooler the quicker it will block or corrode so the more time spent at tick-over, eg in traffic around town, letting it warm up in the drive, running the engine for heat, or to charge the battery while stationary not using the start-stop if you have it, EGR valve passing through carbon build-up on the valve or seat, short journeys infrequent use, will all increase cooler corrosion leading to shorter engine life when the throttle is open the EGR valve is closed so no exhaust gas passing through the Cooler causing more corrosion and depositing the alloy particles in the cylinders to cause the destruction to cylinders, pistons, injectors, valves, and turbos.
The only CFCA engine that failed was driven hard for the first two years with not a single fault like all the others, but then was used predominantly around town on short journeys
left ticking over in the drive warming up and thawing out most mornings the stop-start was also turned off all the things needed to increase the corrosion in the EGR cooler and deliver the pieces of corroded alloy into the combustion chambers to wreak havoc.
The theory is the alloy particles become aluminum oxide which is an excellent abrasive and all the elements exist for this but more likely the alloy pieces melt in the extreme temperatures of the combustion chamber and stick to the cylinder walls, pistons, piston rings, injector nozzles this breaks the lubrication oil film between cylinder wall piston and rings leading scoring due to the lack of lubricant all downhill after that low compression, high oil consumption fouled injectors leading to poor fuel delivery and melted piston crowns and eventual failure

Hi
I agree totally but could not type in all that lol. I did cut mine open and it seemed fine. Having 2 turbos does make it use a bit of oil. I probably put in 250mls per 1000 miles.
My runs to work are 15 miles each way. I dont let it warm up ticking over but i drive steady for the first 3 miles. I have mechanical sympathy being an engineer. I still like the sprinter v6 riot van. Its shit on fuel but its worth it for the space . Now my VW is fixed though its like driving a car and i like it a lot. Its mint and not even a tiny mark on it. Luckily i can park safe at home and work so it has no car park dents etc etc . You are correct i will sell the VW but not because of the issue i had but just because of the space of the riot van
One point i will make is the rear diff Haldex is a poor design. I recon my pump failed at about 40k. The filter screen is not good enough. Or perhaps pumps are not very good. The mesh filter did not have much gunk in it at all and would of had plenty of flow still. The oil was pretty clean too. Either way i bought a pump ,filter and oil and its all good now. Looking at the filter and the pump im sure it was just the pump that failed on its own. The screen mesh was ok and the oil filter looked pretty clean too. So my van is back to new. It seems even better than it was from new in the fuel economy department so thats a bonus. Like you say its a fine engine that goes well with good mpg for its power. Its just the parts fitted to it dont seem the best. My classic favourite is VW bored the blocks oval. Really???? How can you bore a hole oval. Its more like the thrust side of piston has the most wear due to the egr particles in the bores . All bores wear on the thrust face more as the sides dont really have any load on them. The EGR cooler is the killer for sure. Perhaps i was a lucky one thank goodness

 

[10ftbaby]

Hi
New to the forum but i could offer some good help
Its a long read so get a coffee or a beer
Had my vw transpoerter 180 dsg 4 motion from new. At 48k i decided to replace egr cooler and cam belt and do a dsg gearbox oil and filter change. Not the easiest job to do the egr cooler but i did it over Xmas hols
It went all ok but at 50 k i had issues. I only replaced the egr cooler due to horror stories. i knew my van would be ok as i warm it up well and do good 15 mile runs at least
So at 50k. It was a cold foggy snow slushy drive home about 2 years ago. Drove less than a mile and the flashing glowplug light came on. Tried my scanner to switch it off but it would but soon came back along with the eml light and a year later dpf light. Yes i did not fix it and suffered limp mode for 2 years until i had time to move my project to get my lovely mint t5.1 in my garage. Nothing serious was wrong with my van and no engine damage would occur so i suffered 30mph up hills etc for 2 years or a bit more
Last week it came to bits. I had many opinions but always thought turbo. They said leaks on vacuum and intercooler and valves etc and dpf etc etc but my scanner while running showed none of that. I did buy 2 n75 valves as mine is bi turbo and also a boost sensor but no change
So what a nasty job to get the turbos off on a 4 motion. You just cant reach anything from top or below but i managed in the end. I was gutted to see there was not much play in the wastegate on the turbo. A bit but nothing to worry about. So my thoughts were slowly being eaten away. The small turbo i cant check to see if its spinning but all seemed fine. No play or side thrust in the shaft on either turbo. i noticed the manifold after the small turbo was very sooty. So i blew an irline down the exhaust manifold and the compressor turbine did not spin. I tried a few times and in the end took the turbo apart. The exhaust turbine had snapped clean off. There was no play in the shaft and bearings and the oil supply were both perfect
Decided to use ebay and to my surprise there was a complete manifold with turbos etc etc that had only done 500 miles and sat in his garage. Sure enough they looked like new so i bought them. Fitted it all back up which takes some time and effort on a 4 motion. Reset the lights but the dpf would not reset even though no faults were found. Tried to do a dpf regen but one sensor would only just get in range and before the regen it dropped out of range again. So i went on a slow run still in limp mode and still no good. Put scanner on and told it to reset values as i had fitted 2 new dpf filters. Lights went out. Tried giving it a few stationary revs and the figures were good
Test drive to work next day. Wow Shes alive again . It seemed fast to be honest even when i went slow as i always warm up engines well before normal driving. Van fixed and it seemed better than new. next day eml light came on again. Out with scanner and luckily it was the o2 sensor thinking its running rich. Probably full of soot from doing nothing for 2 years. So i reset it and went again on a run in sports mode. Its been fine since after 300 miles. I might sell the van but its running so well and i know it inside out i might stick with it
While i was there i also fitted anew haldex pump and filter for the 4wd . God only knows when that stopped working. So a busy 2 weeks at night but all is well now and its doing 3 mpg more so i dont know if it was bad from new. Checked bores and compression also as i was doing the work. All mint and equal so i cant say 180 engines are bad. Mine uses about 150ml of oil per 1000 miles so with 2 turbos thats not bad at all. Yes i recon the coolers are an issue but also driving gentle until it warms up ok. I read a post some Norweigen ambulances all needed new engines but they get thrashed from cold often. I am sure if the egr cooler is ok and you warm it up careful they are great engines. Also i do my oil and filter every 6k instead of 10k with castrol edge fully synthetic
Never seen a turbo shaft snap on such a small turbo but the shaft is hollow and looked very thin. In my years of knowledge i recon as it was such a cold foggy winters night it froze up. then when running the ice expanded and snapped the shaft. The heat shield behind it was marked and dished which is normally perfectly flat
Might keep it but not sure yet. It rips and drives like a car and its comfy but i have my ex met police sprinter van so i will decide over the next few months which one i will sell
My main point is nothing is wrong with the 180 engines that have been looked after. Warm them up well as they take ages to get to temp from a cold start and im sure you will have no problems. Im here if you need any help as i feel i know these vans well after all my trouble

Hi garryproffitt@hotmail.co.

I am having what appears to be a very similar issue to yours. Mechanic (a friend luckily!!) has replaced EGR, turbos, boost sensor and vacuum actuator but still getting the flashing glow plug dash light every so often. Would you mind explaining what you mean by the compressor turbine? Is this something in the manifold itself or are you referring to one of the turbos?

 

[LizPod]

Hi, have you cut your old EGR cooler open to examining how much corrosion has taken place hence how much-corroded alloy has already entered the bores to destroy them prior to fitting the new EGR cooler?
This should help you in your decision about which van to get rid of my money is on the VW going if it has suffered corrosion, as even a very small amount of metal loss will have caused damage to the bores, pistons, injectors, and all downstream components including turbos and DPF.
I have had five180 CFCA bi-turbo vans they all got thrashed from the gate and I had no issues with them, driven them through Germany a few times flat out with one tone in the back the limiter kicked in at 120 mph but only doing 17 mpg with no problems I admire you for being able to hold back and let them warm up and also give it a moment to cool down which is definitely the correct thing to do I wish I could have the patience to follow your example.
You are very correct there is nothing major wrong with this engine apart from the poor design of the EGR cooler most of the problems stem from that and again you are correct about how the vehicle is driven and how often the oil is changed affects certain components and their life span.
Hence my opinion on what affects the amount of corrosion on this EGR cooler, the more exhaust gas you pass through the cooler the quicker it will block or corrode so the more time spent at tick-over, eg in traffic around town, letting it warm up in the drive, running the engine for heat, or to charge the battery while stationary not using the start-stop if you have it, EGR valve passing through carbon build-up on the valve or seat, short journeys infrequent use, will all increase cooler corrosion leading to shorter engine life when the throttle is open the EGR valve is closed so no exhaust gas passing through the Cooler causing more corrosion and depositing the alloy particles in the cylinders to cause the destruction to cylinders, pistons, injectors, valves, and turbos.
The only CFCA engine that failed was driven hard for the first two years with not a single fault like all the others, but then was used predominantly around town on short journeys
left ticking over in the drive warming up and thawing out most mornings the stop-start was also turned off all the things needed to increase the corrosion in the EGR cooler and deliver the pieces of corroded alloy into the combustion chambers to wreak havoc.
The theory is the alloy particles become aluminum oxide which is an excellent abrasive and all the elements exist for this but more likely the alloy pieces melt in the extreme temperatures of the combustion chamber and stick to the cylinder walls, pistons, piston rings, injector nozzles this breaks the lubrication oil film between cylinder wall piston and rings leading scoring due to the lack of lubricant all downhill after that low compression, high oil consumption fouled injectors leading to poor fuel delivery and melted piston crowns and eventual failure

So is it better for these engines to use the stop start?

 

[FerrisBFW]

So I bought my 180 dsg 4motion in March. One business owner from new 135k miles. It was owned by a Dutch flower import business. One of the directors thrashed it back and forth Amsterdam to Staines. It had all services just about done.

It’s seemed all fine and was good vfm.

I tried to do a compression test with a reasonable Sealey unit, but the adapter was way to short. I think I got c300 psi out of the pots (long story) in the end.

After an oils change and analysis sent to Miller, which came back sort of okay. They said the oil was very old so change it and do it again at 3k.

My mate has a 180 dsg 4 motion Transporter camper conversion with 35k miles on it. So we did a Pepsi Challenge, they both feel the same… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So off I went to Retro Resus (after hearing a lot of positive reviews) engine, box and four wheel drive serviced plus a check all over. Bunch of mechanical stuff to do, plus a blocked DPF. Had that done and now to watch the oil? 1000 miles it used about 200ml, RR said that’s all good.

Next is block off the A cooler and remap. I might put on a D cooler.

It seems okay and drives lovely. I guess time will tell…. I am going to try and make an adapter and do the compression test again and/or fit the new cooler and cut the old one open. What a PITA! To be honest it’s still cheaper than the std service costs on my last L200

 

[venables]

So is it better for these engines to use the stop start?

I would definitely always use the stop-start function on the 180 CFCA engine if you haven't blanked off the EGR. If the engine is stopped it can not pass the exhaust gas through the EGR and back into the cylinders.

 

[LizPod]

I would definitely always use the stop-start function on the 180 CFCA engine if you haven't blanked off the EGR. If the engine is stopped it can not pass the exhaust gas through the EGR and back into the cylinders.

I did not know that, is that the better option then if you have a start/stop engine on a 180 CFCA engine with a C cooler.

 

[venables]

I did not know that, is that the better option then if you have a start/stop engine on a 180 CFCA engine with a C cooler.

The cooler type does not matter on the CFCA 180 engine new type or old it will still corrode in time and destroy your engine bores, pistons, Injectors, turbos, and catalytic converter usually the engine will fail before the bearings wear out due to the debris in the oil.
The easiest and cheapest solution is to blank the EGR and fit an EGR emulator you can remove if need be the only other option is to blank and get the EGR deleted from the ECU Which usually costs a lot more and will cost you again if you want to reverse it.
Do not be tempted to just fit the emulator and not blank the EGR as they suggest as the EGR valve may be passing gas and if the cooler water jacket corrodes through which is common you could hydraulic the engine.

 

[10ftbaby]

Hi garryproffitt@hotmail.co.

I am having what appears to be a very similar issue to yours. Mechanic (a friend luckily!!) has replaced EGR, turbos, boost sensor and vacuum actuator but still getting the flashing glow plug dash light every so often. Would you mind explaining what you mean by the compressor turbine? Is this something in the manifold itself or are you referring to one of the turbos?

Issue sorted, ended up being a faulty secondary coolant pump and corroded wiring to the same coolant pump! Alot of work but worth it in my case