Victron Orion-tr Smart 12/12 30a Isolated Help please

[Qnapper]

Been away for a few days and driving between stops I can see that the Victron Orion-tr Smart 12/12 30a Isolated is not (I think, doing the job)

I have followed guides here to the letter, but what is happening is: start engine the B2B can see engine started voltage shown is 13.3volts and 13.4 ish sometimes more out. Check smart shunt to battery and shows around 28 amps, then after 2/3/5/ minutes voltage drops to 7 volts, and it shuts off - 2/3/5 minutes later voltage back up and 28ish amps going into battery. It did this for a 45-minute drive and I could see the smart alternator going up to 14.4volts when braking or foot off the gas, so know that is working I think.

Setup: T6 euro 5 engine
Veh battery: 80amp (new about 6 weeks ago)
+ wire from Veh (8 Gauge Silicone Wire ) battery with 80amp fuse/breaker in line. I did notice when voltage drops to 7 volts on one side of the breaker, the other side still showed 13.3volts ?????
B2B: mounted under seat with heat sync screwed to seat base to get rid of any heat.
Short wires from B2B to LiFePO4 battery (about .5 metre)

I have tried every setting I can - reset B2B so many times I have lost count. I have used a live feed to the Voltage tolerance L & H pin that made no difference, so went back to supply link and factory settings

Can anyone help or point me in the right direction before I buy loads of stuff to try and fix something that might be a simple fix.

Thanks

 

[t0mb0]

Huge voltage drop over the breaker is a dead giveaway that that’s the issue. Likely a dodgy connection that’s affected by temperature, which would explain the weird cycling behaviour.

 

[Qnapper]

Huge voltage drop over the breaker is a dead giveaway that that’s the issue. Likely a dodgy connection that’s affected by temperature, which would explain the weird cycling behaviour.

Ordered a new one for tomorrow, fingers crossed, and thank you.

 

[t0mb0]

Ordered a new one for tomorrow, fingers crossed, and thank you.

Check the spec of it and the connections to/from it though! The unit itself isn’t necessarily defective.

 

[Dellmassive]

as above ditch the breaker for a decent MIDI fuse.

https://amzn.to/3y87nwO

.





60A fuses . .

https://amzn.to/3y7qSWj

 

[Dellmassive]

post some pics of the setup . . .

Victron stuff is basically bomb proof . . .

it don't normally go wrong or need a reset . . . so we need to look at the install and setup.

if you are using those thermal trip style breakers . . . . . id swap them out right away. ( for midi fuses)



++++++

most of those resettable trip switches on the market are the cheap Chinese cloans that just get hot under load. - i found out the hard way and use the FLIR camera to prove it.



.....................


the exception is the Blue Sea Marine kit - which is genuine quality - but expensive.

ie £70 per switch !!!!

 

[Dellmassive]

eg - 150A trip switch with only 50A going through it. . .


look at the heat build up . . .






............




and seeing as you have the 30A orion.



here are some FLIR thermals for you. unit running at 30A full rate.









.

 

[Qnapper]

Yep trip switch me thinks is going into bin and order midi fuses. Thank for photos.

 

[Qnapper]

Well a long day trying to sort this problem. I removed the in line fuse (whilst awaiting the new one) to test the cabling from vehicle to the Orion-tr Smart. I also put Orion-tr Smart back to factory default, including the jumper, fired up the vehicle and waited the 120 seconds it needs to do it thing.
This is what I got:

So checked voltage across battery terminals 13.4volts on tickover. Checked voltage across +/- on Orion-tr Smart 13.4volts??? At this stage I'm stumped!!!!!! So when into setting and switched off engine shutdown detection and got:

Again checked voltage across battery terminals 13.4volts on tickover? Checked voltage across +/- on Orion-tr Smart 13.4volts??? - Now at this stage I have no hair left on the head!!!!!!! Pulled out and laying on the floor.......

So last change was input voltage lock-out - With engine shutdown detection switched off I set input voltage lock-out to 12.2V and 12.4V and got this:

But the Amps out were only around 26/28amps!!!

Coffee break, fall out with wife and back again, this time using 8 gauge wire both +/- direct from battery to Orion-tr Smart B2B. Same results, so cannot be the installed wiring.

Does anyone have any ideas I may have missed, other than the unit is faulty and needs replacing? Thanks for reading.

 

[t0mb0]

Well a long day trying to sort this problem. I removed the in line fuse (whilst awaiting the new one) to test the cabling from vehicle to the Orion-tr Smart. I also put Orion-tr Smart back to factory default, including the jumper, fired up the vehicle and waited the 120 seconds it needs to do it thing.
This is what I got:
View attachment 161745
So checked voltage across battery terminals 13.4volts on tickover. Checked voltage across +/- on Orion-tr Smart 13.4volts??? At this stage I'm stumped!!!!!! So when into setting and switched off engine shutdown detection and got:
View attachment 161746
Again checked voltage across battery terminals 13.4volts on tickover? Checked voltage across +/- on Orion-tr Smart 13.4volts??? - Now at this stage I have no hair left on the head!!!!!!! Pulled out and laying on the floor.......

So last change was input voltage lock-out - With engine shutdown detection switched off I set input voltage lock-out to 12.2V and 12.4V and got this:
View attachment 161752
But the Amps out were only around 26/28amps!!!

Coffee break, fall out with wife and back again, this time using 8 gauge wire both +/- direct from battery to Orion-tr Smart B2B. Same results, so cannot be the installed wiring.

Does anyone have any ideas I may have missed, other than the unit is faulty and needs replacing? Thanks for reading.

View attachment 161751

Just to clarify a couple of points - when you say measuring battery voltage, are you talking starter or leisure? And when you say measuring victron +/- terminal voltage, is that input or output? Also, was your engine running throughout these screenshots/readings?

 

[Qnapper]

t0mb0, voltage across starter battery. I also checked victron +/- terminal voltage on both input and output. Forget to add output which was 13.8 and leisure sitting at 46% charged. The engine was running throughout tests and screen shots.

 

[t0mb0]

t0mb0, voltage across starter battery. I also checked victron +/- terminal voltage on both input and output. Forget to add output which was 13.8 and leisure sitting at 46% charged. The engine was running throughout tests and screen shots.

Ok, there's a lot to unpack there and a lot of unknowns (to me at least) about the Victron internal logic and configuration. That said, my observations are:

1) Removing the breaker has solved (at least one of) your original problems because the voltage at the starter and the victron input now basically match.
2) The first screenshot shows it not charging. I don't know enough about the Victron settings to guess at what the issue is here, is the ignition or engine run detection wire plugged into the victron? If so, does this go high (12v'ish) when the engine is running? If so, are the victron's internal settings (or jumper) configured to operate in this mode? Alternatively, is it configured to operate without external ignition/enginerun signal and just guess based on voltages?
3) When turning off the engine detection it seems to start charging, so solving or bypassing whatever the issue is in (2) above. But you have an inconsistency between the voltage measured across the victron terminals (13.4v) vs that reported by the app (12.6v). This is pretty weird - are you sure the app voltage and the measured voltage were at exactly the same time? i.e. no chance of a few seconds difference and the voltage changing as the alternator comes on/off? I ask because those voltages are basically ones you'd expect in each case - especially the app ones with the voltage declining from 12.6v to 12.4v as it sags under load.

 

[Dellmassive]

More Victron info..

Diagrams, Schematics & Wires -- How I Done It --

Cable size vs Amps - cheat sheet: I have Been supplied with a travel volts dcdc charger wiring kit xl. Cable size is 16mm and includes a 50amp fuse. Is this sufficient for a 120ah agm of which i will be running lighting, usb sockets, fridge and diesel heater Only by that chart i could...

www.t6forum.com

.

 

[Qnapper]

More Victron info..

Diagrams, Schematics & Wires -- How I Done It --

Cable size vs Amps - cheat sheet: I have Been supplied with a travel volts dcdc charger wiring kit xl. Cable size is 16mm and includes a 50amp fuse. Is this sufficient for a 120ah agm of which i will be running lighting, usb sockets, fridge and diesel heater Only by that chart i could...

www.t6forum.com

.

I have followed your guides to the letter.

 

[Qnapper]

Ok, there's a lot to unpack there and a lot of unknowns (to me at least) about the Victron internal logic and configuration. That said, my observations are:

1) Removing the breaker has solved (at least one of) your original problems because the voltage at the starter and the victron input now basically match.
2) The first screenshot shows it not charging. I don't know enough about the Victron settings to guess at what the issue is here, is the ignition or engine run detection wire plugged into the victron? If so, does this go high (12v'ish) when the engine is running? If so, are the victron's internal settings (or jumper) configured to operate in this mode? Alternatively, is it configured to operate without external ignition/enginerun signal and just guess based on voltages?
3) When turning off the engine detection it seems to start charging, so solving or bypassing whatever the issue is in (2) above. But you have an inconsistency between the voltage measured across the victron terminals (13.4v) vs that reported by the app (12.6v). This is pretty weird - are you sure the app voltage and the measured voltage were at exactly the same time? i.e. no chance of a few seconds difference and the voltage changing as the alternator comes on/off? I ask because those voltages are basically ones you'd expect in each case - especially the app ones with the voltage declining from 12.6v to 12.4v as it sags under load.

I have asked for a replacement for Victron, not holding my breath. I have been reading on their forum all night and there have been some failures of the Orion-tr Smart 12/12 30a.

Will report back here of the outcome.

 

[Dellmassive]

i used the IGN wire connected to the H, ( and didnt use the auto mode )

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Orion-Tr_Smart_DC-DC_Charger_-_Isolated/Orion-Tr_Smart_DC-DC_Charger-en.pdf

++++


this is my 12/12/30

[Guide] DC-DC Charger (for leisure battery) -- How I Done It --

DC-DC Charger (for Leisure battery) -- How I Done It -- ************************************************** Dellmassive`s -- "how I Done It" -- Thread ************************************************** Kit List And Stuff -- How I Done It & What I Use --...

www.t6forum.com

its an isoltated version . . . but they are all the same.


you can see my H - IGN wire.


you can see my 8awg cable . . . but they are only short links.. to anderwsonj plugs.


the main battery feed is a 16mm2 connected to the OEM 100A fuse under battery.


...





.

 

[Dellmassive]

i would image you will get some volt drop over the 8awg cable if its running from under the seat base base to the engine bay?


....

checked voltage across battery terminals 13.4volts on tickover? Checked voltage across +/- on Orion-tr Smart 13.4volts???

the same voltage at both ends of the cable at that instant would imply that no current is flowing . . .


.

this looks like its working correctly . . .;




pulling 28A amps over that 8awg cable will cause a volt drop, maybe a volt or more...


............... so you would measure 13.4v at the starter battery terminals . . . and 12.4v at the orion terminals. ( due to the volt drop over the cable when pulling 28A )


...

 

[Dellmassive]

also note in the manual the cable and fuse requirements . .



60A fuse and 16mm2 copper cable for a 5meter run.






.....



so 8awg cable is too thin - 10mm2.


16mm2 is equivalent to 6awg.


++++





.



can you post some pics of your starter battery . . .

leisure battery . .

and Victron cables.


also...



where is the charger located.



what is the cable run lenghts for each run?


what fuses are we using?



....



pics say a 1000 words etc. . .




.





keep calm and carry on - we`ll get this worked out together.




.....

 

[Dellmassive]

can you run a quick temporay main feed jumper cable from the starter pos to the charger pos?

https://amzn.to/3Obif2z

 

[Dellmassive]

or look at getting a 2000w Amp wire kit and swap out the main feed?


this one comes with a cheap 4awg feed cable.

https://amzn.to/3zVCU6q