Victron Orion straight swap for Sterling charger?

[KR.]

My Sterling BB1230 appears to be 'buggered'. I had been thinking of replacing it with a Victron unit at some point so that's now moved to the top of the list.
The unit has previously worked and indications suggest the wiring is okay, so I'm wondering if I can lift out the Sterling and do a straight swap with the Victron Orion Smart Tr 12/12-30A .

Current BB1230 wiring :



Victron manual page - DC charger wiring :



1. Is this a straight swap for someone who knows a bit but not enough about vehicle electrics?
2. The remote on/off confuses me, not sure what this is for, I'd have thought it could be switched off via the app. Anything to concern myself about?
3. I think it's the non-isolated version I require?
4. Need I concern myself with the engine-on detection or is it set up easily enough?
5. Any snags using existing cables to leisure and starter batteries?
6. Location, the unit will take the place of the Sterling under the drivers seat alongside the diesel heater, concerns about clearance?

I've a Euro 6 van converted to campervan with 160w solar through Victron MPPT and also have a Victron Smart Charger for hookup. Battery is a Lion Calcium type 100Ah which at some point I'd like to swap out for an AGM 110ah, or in a perfect world Lithium.

 

[KR.]

Checking the van, the current cables are 10mm². The charger is/will be under the drivers seat and the leisure battery is back at the drivers side rear wheel arch. Not perfect but that's what I'm aiming to wire for. The current fuse on the starter battery is 40A for the Sterling. The Victron manual says this on wire sizes and fusing :



I reckon it's about 2m from vehicle battery to under the drivers seat then 3m at most to leisure battery position. Good to go on 10mm² and a straight swap to 60A midi fuse(s)?
Safety overrides ease of installation of course, and while I'd rather use the current cabling (as I just know it will be tie wrapped behind the cupboard units, and won't pull through), if I need to shift up to a bigger cable then so be it.

 

[KR.]

Anyone installed one of these and remember the cable size?

 

[t0mb0]

For stuff like this, an online voltage drop calculator is useful, there's one here:

Cable Size Calculator - Cable sizing and selection | 12 Volt Planet

Cable Size Calculator - Read our guide to selecting cable of the correct type and size for your automotive, marine or leisure wiring application. Auto and Marine Electrical Components from 12 Volt Planet

www.12voltplanet.co.uk

This shows that for their 2m/10mm recommendation, the voltage drop (at max 30A output) would be 0.21v/1.75% and the equivalent for their 5m/16mm recommendation would be 0.32v/2.67%. If you were to use your existing 10mm cable over a 3m run, that would imply a 0.31v/2.58% voltage loss. Given that this is essentially the same voltage drop as their 5m/16mm recommendation, I'd say you were basically fine, although you probably wouldn't want much more than 2.58% loss.

The other thing to consider is that the numbers above assume 3m there on the positive and 3m back on the ground. If your leisure battery is grounded to the chassis at the point where it's located (which it ideally should be I think) the estimated voltage drops above will be very conservative because the chassis resistance should be very small compared to a 10mm wire - in this case you're almost certainly fine.

Also, this only applies when the DC-DC is running at full 30A, the voltage drop will be much less as the battery fills up and the charger reduces the output current.

 

[KR.]

Many thanks @t0mb0 I'm getting a new AGM battery to replace the cheapo lead acid in there at the moment so I'll get a good look at that ground to see if that's how it's been done. On the Victron unit's spec it says Maximum Output Current (for 10s) 40A. That takes those voltage loss figures to 0.41v/3.42%, somewhat above your 2.58, I note the 12vplanet blurb above the calculator says 3-4% loss is 'generally acceptable'.

Out of interest, the voltage loss issue, does that become a problem at higher % than you've quoted for reasons of loss of voltage required for the task in hand which for a battery charger would merely mean longer to charge or does it become a cable capacity/fire risk problem? The former may be acceptable, the latter not so.

 

[t0mb0]

Many thanks @t0mb0 I'm getting a new AGM battery to replace the cheapo lead acid in there at the moment so I'll get a good look at that ground to see if that's how it's been done. On the Victron unit's spec it says Maximum Output Current (for 10s) 40A. That takes those voltage loss figures to 0.41v/3.42%, somewhat above your 2.58, I note the 12vplanet blurb above the calculator says 3-4% loss is 'generally acceptable'.

Out of interest, the voltage loss issue, does that become a problem at higher % than you've quoted for reasons of loss of voltage required for the task in hand which for a battery charger would merely mean longer to charge or does it become a cable capacity/fire risk problem? The former may be acceptable, the latter not so.

Yeah, it's more about efficiency than safety. If the Victron is operating within the parameters in the manual, that should be fine, however. It won't affect how 'full' it charges the battery because the current naturally tends towards zero as the battery becomes charged so the voltage losses during the final stages of charge will be negligible anyway.

For the safety aspect, you should be interested in the max current carrying capacity of the cable. In the case of the example 10mm cable below, that's 70A so you should definitely be fusing below this.

Single Core Thin Wall Cable - 10.0mm² 70A

70A 10.0mm² high performance, single core, thin wall cable for auto, marine & leisure applications. OEM spec. Available in various colours.

www.12voltplanet.co.uk

If the cable is somewhere likely to get hot, or is going through a load of dense insulation, for example, it might be advisable to "derate" the cable, i.e. treat the max current capacity as somewhat less. Given the the advice is for a 60A fuse, you're probably fine.

 

[KR.]

That's good news @t0mb0 , I might get away with swapping out the Sterling fuses to the 60A for the Victron. The Victron is due early this week and so is the new battery. I've shifted my battery connections off the battery terminal posts (6 on each if I remember correctly!) to a 3 way terminal clamp (yup, 2 on each of those) so in theory the battery should be easier to swapout. I will have to remove the rear heat shield to undo the battery retaining bracket from underneath and the battery is inside the furniture, the negative end only accessible from above through a hatch inside the bottom of a cupboard. After doing the terminal clamps I think I'm now capable of keyhole surgery in the dark.
You have to wonder sometimes ...

 

[KR.]

Regarding those 3 way terminal clamps things look a bit neater but I think I can improve on it a bit, oddly enough at the negative end. I could (with difficulty) mount a busbar on the furniture 'wall' above the battery and connect the return load/grounds to that.
My question is what needs to be connected to the battery neg post and what can go on the busbar? Can the ground go onto the busbar and then connect the battery to the busbar to ground the battery, or do I need to ground the battery directly from the neg post and connect the neg post to the busbar where everything else can be connected including Victron solar, mains and DC charger?
I'm guessing the battery needs a direct connection to ground but not sure about those charging connections...

 

[Leadfold]

KR, how is this set up working for you? I ask as I would like to put in a similar set up. I have read that the Vitron Orion can running worryingly hot. Have you had such issues? Is there anything you would change if you did this again?

Thanks for any advice you can give.

Chris

 

[Salty Spuds]

KR, how is this set up working for you? I ask as I would like to put in a similar set up. I have read that the Vitron Orion can running worryingly hot. Have you had such issues? Is there anything you would change if you did this again?

Thanks for any advice you can give.

Chris

I did exactly what the OP did, I.e. swapped a Sterling 1230 for an Orion 12-30. We also have a lithium battery which means that the Orion will deliver its full 30A output when the leisure battery is down. When the orion was new, it gave off a hot plastic smell when it was on full chat, & the missus said she could feel the heat in her seat, ooer matron! The orion & battery are under the passenger seat.
I mounted the orion on a piece of 6mm aluminium chequer plate to act as an additional heat sink. We haven’t noticed a smell or heat issue once it “bedded in”.

 

[Leadfold]

Thanks reassuring to hear

 

[KR.]

KR, how is this set up working for you? I ask as I would like to put in a similar set up. I have read that the Vitron Orion can running worryingly hot. Have you had such issues? Is there anything you would change if you did this again?

Thanks for any advice you can give.

Chris

Chris, in short it's working well. Fit and forget. No issues with heat although I haven't been looking under the seat to check. I hoovered the van yesterday and no signs of heat damage round the unit. I got an auto sparkie to fit it in the end and if I remember rightly ordered new cabling but can't remember any specifics which I discussed with the sparkie at the time. I've used Sterling, Ablemail and Victron DC chargers, the Victron wins hands down, all of them charge up the battery but the Victron app to monitor and change settings wins it for me.

 

[Leadfold]

Thanks