TSi MPG

[chriscroft]

You must be Joking!!!! If no please never do mechanic and never speak about. You are going to make a full of yourself.

I'm Kidding you. but do you know any modern turbo car without an IC? most have AIR/AIR IC and some have AIR/WATER IC but always an IC.

Calm down, Calm down... Grandad Have you got a Gramaphone?
It seems to me the most commonly used terminology is "ChargeCooler" or "ChargeAir Cooler" as opposed to "Air to Liquid Intercooler" yes the same thing, but generally Intercooler refers to the Air-Air type, when talking about vehicles..............As per VW's T6 brochure

 

[chriscroft]

Do we have to get this mistake on every page of this post???
NO NO NO it's not like Golf 6 GTI that has got an EA888 Gen1 Engine
YES it's like Audi B8 A4 2.0 TFSI that got an EA888 GEN 2 engine.
The difference between GEN1 and GEN2 is the Variable valve Lift. you easily see on top of the head, exhaust side . Many mistake those for 8 injector's then thinking this engine has 8 injector's.

EA888 Gen1 produce 280Nm of torque car using it Golf 6 GTI 211hp
EA888 Gen2 produce 350 Nm of torque due to the VVT car using it AUDI B8 2.0TFSI ( A4, A5, Q5) VW T5 TSI, VW T6 TSI

Why every body make this mistake? 80% of the tuner I contact did also that mistake. I got far from those that did that mistake. Mean they have no idea of their job. Mostly OTS tune.

About pulling a Remap T6 TSI will pull as good as TDI. I have 400Nm at 2000 rpm.View attachment 30222

View attachment 30225 View attachment 30222

And a Revo stage 1 mapped 2.0BiTDI has 550NM@2000rpm v your TSI map of 400NM@2000rpm: Thats 37.5% more torque..... not quite the same?

 

[chriscroft]

www.wagner-tuning.uk/200001067.html
I must say I'm lost now. I thought the T6 BiTDI 204 had a air/water Chargecooler; yet wagner show an upgraded air/air intercooler.
Is this use as well as the chargecooler?

 

[Mars2]

And a Revo stage 1 mapped 2.0BiTDI has 550NM@2000rpm v your TSI map of 400NM@2000rpm: Thats 37.5% more torque..... not quite the same?

I was speaking about not tuned TDI
That was my remap before I upgrade the high pressure fuel pump. My fueling was limited at low rpm. ( HPFP run on cam shaft)
So tuner could not push more boost as then I was starting to get lean AFR.
Now according to My virtual dyno i'm at 550NM at 2200rpm.
I will get a new dyno session when I'm back from work trip in December.
Last time my virtual dyno was spot on compare to real dyno. so I expect 520 to 550 NM around 2200 rpm and may be 330HP.

 

[Mars2]

Calm down, Calm down... Grandad Have you got a Gramaphone?
It seems to me the most commonly used terminology is "ChargeCooler" or "ChargeAir Cooler" as opposed to "Air to Liquid Intercooler" yes the same thing, but generally Intercooler refers to the Air-Air type, when talking about vehicles..............As per VW's T6 brochure

Sorry I'm French so my english spelling might not be perfect!
Mais ci tu veux on discute en Français mais la c'est toi qui va avoir des problémes d'orthographe.
A+

 

[chriscroft]

I was speaking about not tuned TDI
That was my remap before I upgrade the high pressure fuel pump. My fueling was limited at low rpm. ( HPFP run on cam shaft)
So tuner could not push more boost as then I was starting to get lean AFR.
Now according to My virtual dyno i'm at 550NM at 2200rpm.
I will get a new dyno session when I'm back from work trip in December.
Last time my virtual dyno was spot on compare to real dyno. so I expect 520 to 550 NM around 2200 rpm and may be 330HP.

Those are big figures, that is a very quick T6

 

[Mars2]

It's quick but less than my ex T5 V6 4 motion with Supercharger AWIC ( charge cooler ) and 262/264 cam's
I'm on search of the right turbo/injector's and budget to get something on that level with my TSI

PS: AWIC Air Water Inter Cooler . that is how they call it at Trumpland.

 

[Mars2]

By the way It's not torque that make move a car, bike, truck.... or what ever.
It's the power. It's power to wheel that make your car/van Move. power at crank is also a bit irrelevant. That's why I like US guy's that only speak of Wheel HP
Torque it's just a abstract value at a certain RPM. If you have a torque wrench you know what I mean.
Power is what goes to the ground through wheel. it's Power= torque X Rpm X 5252
I can put any time that I want 1000NM through the back wheel of a bicycle with just the power of my leg's with the right transmission. Isn't it?
So if one car have 500Nm at 2000rpm so about 135 hp at that RPM and an other car has 135 hp at 4000rpm it could pull the same with a gear box that has a ratio of half of the first one.
Stop to speak about torque it's irrelevant if you don't compare to gear box ratio, rpm range......
The only important thing is power on what RPM range.
Average 200 Hp on 4000 rpm rev range is going to be fast if you have the good gear ratio. it doesn't mater if it's 200hp from 2000rpm to 4000rpm or 200hp from 4000rpm to 8000rpm if you have the matching gear ratio for the power range.

I exgerate it to make you understand my point.

 

[chriscroft]

By the way It's not torque that make move a car, bike, truck.... or what ever.
It's the power. It's power to wheel that make your car/van Move. power at crank is also a bit irrelevant. That's why I like US guy's that only speak of Wheel HP
Torque it's just a abstract value at a certain RPM. If you have a torque wrench you know what I mean.
Power is what goes to the ground through wheel. it's Power= torque X Rpm X 5252
I can put any time that I want 1000NM through the back wheel of a bicycle with just the power of my leg's with the right transmission. Isn't it?
So if one car have 500Nm at 2000rpm so about 135 hp at that RPM and an other car has 135 hp at 4000rpm it could pull the same with a gear box that has a ratio of half of the first one.
Stop to speak about torque it's irrelevant if you don't compare to gear box ratio, rpm range......
The only important thing is power on what RPM range.
Average 200 Hp on 4000 rpm rev range is going to be fast if you have the good gear ratio. it doesn't mater if it's 200hp from 2000rpm to 4000rpm or 200hp from 4000rpm to 8000rpm if you have the matching gear ratio for the power range.

I exgerate it to make you understand my point.

I don't disagree with your logic....
But, I think this is all too theoretical; for 95% who own a T6, it is the torque output at low revs of the engine which gives it every day enjoyable driving characteristics. Infact I think thats true for most SUV owners
IMO what happens above 4000/4500rmp is of very occasional interest.
Now if we are talking about a sports car/hot hatch.......a different story....just my thoughts

 

[Mars2]

You are true in a way because people are so used to drive diesel since so many year that their driving habit has become low rev driving.
In my ex T5 V6 I had to be over 4000rpm to move fast. you get used to it and do your shifting to always stay above.
But every time I made it try to owner of a diesel car/van they would change to next gear at 4000 rpm by automatic just at the moment the power was about to kick in.
Then they were disapointed of it.

A bit like if I take their diesel and with my habit rev them trying to stay always above 3800/4000 rpm I would be very disappointed hiting all te time the diesel regulation.

But on a side note how much fun was it to rev to rev that T5 V6 to 7200rpm with the wonderfull V6 sound then shift and be already above 5500 on the next gear.
having a Van that sound like a sport car.


The T6 Tsi tuned is on an other kind it got a efficient rev range from 2000 to 6200 rpm. Like a huge elastic. But less fun than the V6 with the supercharger. the sound of V6 combine with noise of supercharger at 7000 was addictive!!!!!

Yeah most of people just need a +120 Hp car at 2000rpm ( I like more to speak about power) and they don't need all the above. that's why electric car are going to be so popular in futur. Instant power at ZERO Rpm.

 

[Mr K Harcourt]

Gents
All I can say is, I have owned a 130tdi auto t5 a 180 bitdi manual t5, a 150tdi dsg t5 euro and now I'm running the t6 204 tsi dsg and there really isn't a lot of difference in take off between the euro tdi and the tsi The real difference comes when you put your foot DOWN and you rise through the rev range. The tsi just keeps pulling Intact it doesn't really start to go until you hit 4k But below 4k is really not any different to the 150 euro.

 

[chriscroft]

I guess the hybrid-petrol has the best of both worlds 100% torque from the batteries to get you going; with the high power delivered by the petrols in the upper rev range, when you want to go for it.
I haven't driven a TSI but the 204BiTDI does have a nice torque delivery; thats not to say I wouldn't like some more for the odd occasions.
I enquired about a Revo remap, but not available for mine yet as it is a dsg/4motion, which requires a different map for some reason?

 

[Mr K Harcourt]

Since the remap to 300bhp is now really fun.
I'm in talks with Revo about doing the stage 3, it's just the downpipe that the sticking point

 

[Mars2]

The TSI when not remap is not a high rev engine.
It's a petrol engine tuned to behave like a diesel.
Power fall of at 4500 rpm.
See my first remap ( very conservative) you have before and after remap curve.
On before curve ( black) you can clearly see that they is no point reving the TSI when on OEM tune.

Black line before
Red is after

 

[Mars2]

Since the remap to 300bhp is now really fun.
I'm in talks with Revo about doing the stage 3, it's just the downpipe that the sticking point

Why is the down pipe a sticking point?
I thought that K04-64 and our turbo had almost same exhaust side screws paterne for down pipe. Just a bit of dremel to enlarge one of the hole.
Then if you want no Cat just gut out the cat's in OEM down pipe.
That's what I did to become stage 2.

Guy's from JDL engineering in Holland have prove many time on Golf 6 GTI 211 TSI and on GTI 6 R with K04-64 that gutted cat make same power as Milltek 3" down pipe or other 3" down pipe.
They call gutted cat: Katmod
It's very easy mode. Just a need a good metal bar and a good harmer took me less than 10 minutes. the original down pipe is already 2.75" (70mm) on the TSI it change to 2.5" after the first silencer in the middle of the Van.

Other wise you have the TTE 450 turbo that is plug and play.
No modification needed to down pipe, air pipe in and out, oil feed, water feed.
They build one for MTR germany they made 420 hp and 510 nm with every thing else original only a wagner IC. They kept the Original down pipe with the two cat.
Was in contact by FB messenger with MTR
I have been in contact by mail with TTE at the moment they don't know if they will bring that TTE 450 to production as they think too low intrest so more we are to ask for it the more chance it goes to production.

 

[Mars2]

I did also did compare TTE 450 to other set up. Here is the quick thing I did.
Unfortunately I find out later that the REVO K04-64 Dyno that I found must be a fake.
VW Multivan T5 Revo Stage 3 — Urban Racers
Because for exemple if you calculate Horse power from the torque at 4200 rpm peak torque you find 286.5hp
But at that RPM the graph show's something like 345 hp.
So look like some inflated power curve. It's the same at every rpm if you calculate it.
calculating peak horse power from torque curve you are at something like 305 hp ( very low)

I right by Mistake TTE 450 MTM it's TTE 450 MTR

 

[Paulteague77]

Since the remap to 300bhp is now really fun.
I'm in talks with Revo about doing the stage 3, it's just the downpipe that the sticking point

There is a bit more than just the downpipe to consider my friend !!!
Believe me I know , i have a revo stage 3 tsi t6 with a hybrid unit !!! Yes its mental fast but my god was it a lot of work
I know its been done in Holland, Russia and other country's but ours is the first uk one , the ko4 is a total ass to fit !! But well worth it ( makes me smile every time some t6 derv pulls up behind me a flashes his lights to get me out the way lol)
If you fancy stage 3 pm me ill help as much as I can

 

[Mars2]

For sure a OEM K04-64 is really a bad option for a T6/T5 as the intake of the turbo is totally wrong for for those T5/T6 TSI .it's made for the engine bay architecture of Golf/ audi A3/TT plateforme . with the intake Turning 90° upward. But it's super easy option for Golf 6 GTI ( almost plug and play).
Their is plenty of turbo with the right design, hybrid's or you can reshape the K04-64 to fit the T6 engine bay architecture with a bit of cutting and welding on intake side.
Those stupid tuner that use K04-64 with the original layout of the Golf just did not do their home work and create lot of work to go around the problem because of their short study.
Creating new intake hose with stupid path, moving the dump valve..... just because they did not study the T5/T6 engine bay architecture before choosing a turbo.


I did a supercharger implementation with AWIC on My ex T5 V6 I did all my home work before and when I start the install it took me 48 hours with the instal of new cam's because all part's where already study, design and produce before starting the install.

When I will change Turbo on My T6 I expect it to be max 8 hour work. For sure I will not go K04-64 as it come from factory with a layup of the air intake tube that is totaly wrong direction for the T5/T6 TSI. with the right turbo it's easier than playing LEGO to upgrade the T5/T6 TSI to 400hp +

Stop to make simple thing like a turbo swap look complicated!!!! it's at the level of a children playing LEGO.
Engine swap are complicated. specialy when installing one from an other brand than the car you put this on. like LS1 in GT86

The down pipe and intake are at the same level as installing a new sink in your kitchen it's just hoses game. The ECU tuning part for a good tuning guy is peace of cake.
The OEM fueling system is good up to 420 hp so well above what a K04-64 can produce. if you want more midrange torque you can install an upgrade kit of your High pressure fuel pump. That will take you max 1 hour if you have two left hand. (did it in less than 30 minutes, 5 screws to unbolted and one hose to undo. I also had to swap injector's for my E85 project)

 

[Sharpe]

Can anyone comment on MPG figures on a remapped TSI manual? Obviously going to be low if driving it like a 300bhp vehicle, but for normal driving was there much difference from standard?

 

[Fish]

Can anyone comment on MPG figures on a remapped TSI manual? Obviously going to be low if driving it like a 300bhp vehicle, but for normal driving was there much difference from standard?

@BognorMotors