Noco Genius 10 not working correctly

[Dellmassive]

here is the results from the CTEK.

2 days later the charger is still running the loads . . . similar as the Victron unit.





here is the BM2 plot.








i managed to get the charger to restart the cycle . . .

but only after throwing a massive load at the inverter, causing a volt drop . . .

the charger detected this and restart the charge cycle after the battery volts dipped below 12v.




at that point the cycle restarted. . .







that shows that the CTEK smart chargers can be used as charger/power supply when on EHU.




test end - definatly this time.

 

[SamD]

Well I've now got the victron fitted, dont have the fridge plugged in yet but will give it a try next week!
Out with the old

and then when the victron was plugged in


And then after a few hours

 

[AnonymousBattery314]

Just popping in to add my own experience with the Noco Genius 10 (and the 5, which seems to work the same way):

agree with everything that was found that the Genius line doesn't want to function as a "maintainer" if you have *any* sort of constant load on your lead acid batteries. They claim that it will go back into "charging" from "maintenance" mode (with the Green led flashing) if the voltage drops, but I recorded my battery at 11.99V and it was still sitting there looking stupid with the green led flashing like everything was fine. This was with a relatively small constant discharge in the neighborhood of 1A.

I also experienced where it gave up completely and decided it was a bad battery, probably because it thought the voltage was dropping too rapidly. And that can only be reset by power cycling the charger.

So if you're stuck with a Noco charger then you might want to put a automatic timer of some sort on it to power cycle it every few hours and force it to top up the battery that way. I'm just going to buy a Victron one instead.

 

[pepepl]

Hey, good discussion guys, but I'm wondering why can't the NOCO Genius 10 "Supply Mode" be used in this case instead of normal charging? I've just connected it to my T6.1 leisure battery and it maintains 13.6-13.8V. This voltage rather won't overload the battery as it's normally charged at 14.5V during the drive.

Below warning from NOCO's User Manual can be a bit scary, but I guess if it's hardwired to the leisure battery via eyelet connectors it should be fine.

Using 13.6V Supply. [Press and Hold 3 Seconds With Clamps Not Connected]
13.6V Supply converts the charger to a constant current, constant voltage DC power supply. It can be used to power 12VDC devices, tire inflators, seat heaters and more. As a power supply, it can
also be used to retain a vehicle’s on-board computer settings during battery repair or replacement. 13.6V Supply provides 13.6-volts at 10A with overload protection at 12A (Max).

CAUTION. USE THIS MODE WITH EXTREME CARE. SUPPLY MODE DISABLES SAFETY FEATURES AND LIVE POWER IS PRESENT AT THE CONNECTORS. DO NOT TOUCH CONNECTIONS
TOGETHER. RISK OF SPARKS, FIRE, EXPLOSION, PROPERTY DAMAGE, INJURY, AND DEATH

I haven't tested how it behaves with >12A load although (whether it will just provide max amp NOCO can deliver and the rest will be consumed from the battery or cut-out the supply completely).

 

[roadtripper]

Welcome to the forum @pepepl

You can do that but you are essentially turning your smart charger into a dumb PSU based charger.

You would rely on the inherent behaviour of the battery to regulate the charge, something that was abandoned as good practice in both charger and alternator control some time ago. It's not just the voltage that is important but also the current control.

The most likely outcome of doing this long term is a sustained overcharging of the battery and loss of electrolyte (and therefore capacity)

 

[pepepl]

Thanks @roadtripper for the response. Yeah, I agree with loosing smart charger features although NOCO's supply mode doesn't differ a lot from Victron's "Storage mode" from what I see - both are maintaining constant voltage, although at a slightly dfferent levels (13.6V vs. 13.2V). The actual current will depend on battery level (so the potential difference between charger and battery) - if it's charged fully then the current will be near 0A.

Another difference is missing raising voltage back "to the absorption level to ‘equalize’ the battery" feature on Noco side, although it's not a big deal assuming RV will be moved from time to time to another location.

From Victron's IP22 Charger datasheet (https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-Blue-Smart-IP22-Charger-230-VAC-EN.pdf):

Storage Mode: less maintenance and aging when the battery is not in use
The storage mode kicks in whenever the battery has not been subjected to discharge for 24 hours. In the storage mode float voltage is reduced to 2,2 V/cell (13,2 V for a 12 V battery) to minimize gassing and corrosion of the positive plates. Once a week the voltage is raised back to the absorption level to ‘equalize’ the battery. This feature prevents stratification of the electrolyte and sulfation, which are major causes of early battery failure.

I guess the storage logic is the same for IP65 version.

 

[roadtripper]

Yes smart chargers designed for long term storage will drop the voltage and then occasionally raise it, my CTEK does the same.

It's better for a lead acid to slightly self discharge rather than being held at full charge, but you need occasional periods of charging to make sure the cells don't get imbalanced.

Power supply voltage is normally slightly above the normal voltage of the battery, the aim being that energy comes from the PSU not the battery.

If you leave voltage that there constantly then the current doesn't drop to nothing as the PSU voltage is higher than the battery voltage. The energy being transferred to the battery has to go somewhere and when fully charged it can't go into the electrolyte chemical reaction as normal, so it will tend to go into heat or electrolysis (which causes gassing)

Basically PSU voltages will cause damage if left connected, long term float voltages with occasional absorption voyages will not.