The shitty engine design
If you want a decent fuel filter (2 micron and 98% water separation) you have to spend a few quid.
It’s a pity motor manufacturers put more effort in to mindless cabin features than the basics that keep us on the road.
I reckon Racor are close if not top of the game in fuel filtration, I’ve used the equipment in marine applications for decades and it has never failed.
It’s possible to add water presence alarms and build banks of filters if the fuel is dirty but requires constant flow.
www.asap-supplies.com
EDIT: I would expect forecourt pumps to have this level of filtration but who is organising the forecourt pump maintenance???
It’s a pity motor manufacturers put more effort in to mindless cabin features than the basics that keep us on the road.
I reckon Racor are close if not top of the game in fuel filtration, I’ve used the equipment in marine applications for decades and it has never failed.
It’s possible to add water presence alarms and build banks of filters if the fuel is dirty but requires constant flow.
Racor 120RMAM2 Petrol/Diesel Spin-On Fuel Filter
The Racor 120RMAM2 petrol / diesel spin-on fuel filter has a 2 micron filter element & a metal bowl. The Racor fuel filter removes 99 percent of free water
EDIT: I would expect forecourt pumps to have this level of filtration but who is organising the forecourt pump maintenance???
I have a really hard time believing that poor quality forecourt fuel has resulted in a condemned engine, especially when we have some of the highest quality forecourt fuel outside of Austria and Spain (who for some reason have even higher fuel standards).
Smells like you've had shit sucked through your intake from the EGR system tbh, given that 99% of problems with the 204ps are down to the fact that the egr / pcm system is specced for pre diesel-gate mapping I have to say that you are the unluckiest man in the world if a 3 year old, German designed, engine block has failed due to fuel quality. Excluding my feelings about modern emissions add ons these engine designs are still a modern marvel of reliability.
If its getting paid for via insurance then I would recommend getting the egr, dpf adblue etc dealt with if you intend on keeping the van. Otherwise I'd be kicking off with VW and getting a very favourable offer on a trade in against a V6.1 abt
Smells like you've had shit sucked through your intake from the EGR system tbh, given that 99% of problems with the 204ps are down to the fact that the egr / pcm system is specced for pre diesel-gate mapping I have to say that you are the unluckiest man in the world if a 3 year old, German designed, engine block has failed due to fuel quality. Excluding my feelings about modern emissions add ons these engine designs are still a modern marvel of reliability.
If its getting paid for via insurance then I would recommend getting the egr, dpf adblue etc dealt with if you intend on keeping the van. Otherwise I'd be kicking off with VW and getting a very favourable offer on a trade in against a V6.1 abt
Thanks for the update OP. I see the fuel testing only commented that there were no visible particles in the fuel. You won't visibly see 20 micron swarf, that's less than a thou, and about 1/50 mm, but it would block the injectors if coming from the disintegrating HP pump. I'd invest in a more comprehensive fuel test to see what the dirt actually is. I'm with @Catagonia that you just don't get dirty fuel in the UK forecourts. Anything 20 microns would however get stopped by the stock fuel filter.
It's the glazed bores that have caused the compression loss - not scoring as was originally suggested by Breeze report. This would also explain the lack of copper or tin in the oil report which would indicate bearing material, and the lack of chromium which would indicate rings all being worn and floating around in the oil. It all begins to make more sense now.
You were unlucky I think to start it when the crank was probably just before BDC on no.1 on the compression stroke when diesel had leaked in. This allowed the preceding cylinder in the firing order to start the motor and bend the rod. You wouldn't do that on the starter alone.
£6.5K is a lot more reasonable for a rod, hone, set of rings and injectors and the rebuild + labour and ancillaries etc..
Lastly, I see it's a local (Bournemouth/Poole van). Have you had it from new? If not, it's not an ex-UDrive renter is it?? They do get abuse, and run on red diesel by some unscrupulous renters. Now you do get contaminated & dirty red diesel, that's been lying around in bowsers on sites.....
It's the glazed bores that have caused the compression loss - not scoring as was originally suggested by Breeze report. This would also explain the lack of copper or tin in the oil report which would indicate bearing material, and the lack of chromium which would indicate rings all being worn and floating around in the oil. It all begins to make more sense now.
You were unlucky I think to start it when the crank was probably just before BDC on no.1 on the compression stroke when diesel had leaked in. This allowed the preceding cylinder in the firing order to start the motor and bend the rod. You wouldn't do that on the starter alone.
£6.5K is a lot more reasonable for a rod, hone, set of rings and injectors and the rebuild + labour and ancillaries etc..
Lastly, I see it's a local (Bournemouth/Poole van). Have you had it from new? If not, it's not an ex-UDrive renter is it?? They do get abuse, and run on red diesel by some unscrupulous renters. Now you do get contaminated & dirty red diesel, that's been lying around in bowsers on sites.....
Yes, I have had it from new and make sure it's serviced at the recommended intervals.
I must admit everyone's comments have been very helpful, insightful and very much appreciated. I can understand how excess fuelling would cause the issues in the engine internals, but I'm still struggling to fully make sense of how the injectors became worn to do that. Was the fuel really that dirty AND the filter failed to stop the tiny bits? Or was it really the high pressure fuel pump sending s**t into the fuel system, but Dragon say the pump's OK? Or could the EGR cooler also have done something similar? But would that have been seen in the oil sample? Still confused....but I'll try to pick Dragon's brains some more tomorrow.
I must admit everyone's comments have been very helpful, insightful and very much appreciated. I can understand how excess fuelling would cause the issues in the engine internals, but I'm still struggling to fully make sense of how the injectors became worn to do that. Was the fuel really that dirty AND the filter failed to stop the tiny bits? Or was it really the high pressure fuel pump sending s**t into the fuel system, but Dragon say the pump's OK? Or could the EGR cooler also have done something similar? But would that have been seen in the oil sample? Still confused....but I'll try to pick Dragon's brains some more tomorrow.
I have been thinking about you today... well your van. Whilst trying to get into Ringwood. WTF have they done with the roads?! As some old dear in a Honda came the wrong way (the old way) down the one way bit by the Marketplace.... 
Anyway, see the high ferrous reading in the oil - that's come from somewhere, especially if the oil was 2K miles old. That again points to the HP pump grinding up, and the bits being washed down the bore with the excess fuel.
I think the fuel filter would be fine enough to filter average day to day debris that would be expected. The only thing I've ever seen similar to yours was where there was water in the fuel that caused rust on the inside of the pump, that then got scraped off on each day's restart and clagged up the injectors. I don't think that happened to you, as the Karl Fischer of the fuel was 0. I would expect to see 5-10PPM really in a 4 year old van that's had 100+ fillups. Big fat 0 is a bit odd. You would expect a bit of condensation on the inside of the tank over 4 years.
Your fuel test doesn't distinguish contamination being dirt or wear debris. A better fuel test would clarify this. Dragon say there is dirt in the tank. The test results show high counts of particles 2,5,15, etc micron part per ml, but they show contamination score of 0. Why do the ISO tests have n/a next to them ?! I'm losing confidence in your fuel test!
I don't think the cause is EGR failure, as that gets sucked in with the air, and wouldn't affect the fuel system, but could damage bores etc if there were chunks breaking away. Depending on the EGR failure, you often see loss of water before anything else.
I think we have to narrow it down to the HP pump failing and wear particles clogging the injectors for some reason. This could be a latent manufacturing fault in the pump or contamination introduced from when the fuel filter was last changed, or a faulty fuel filter, i.e. it wasn't assembled properly and unfiltered fuel is passing through it. When was the fuel filter last changed ? Main Dealer OEM or Indy pattern ?
I think everything else can be eliminated at this stage, but would like to hear others' views. This is a tricky failure to pin down, but also an interesting one to ponder. Breeze did reasonably well I think, as their average fitter will never have seen something like this, let alone be able to consider the causes. Dragon have now got the thing in bits and are looking though each assembly. The fact that their observations contradict the fuel test results need some consideration, hence my thoughts above.
Anyway, see the high ferrous reading in the oil - that's come from somewhere, especially if the oil was 2K miles old. That again points to the HP pump grinding up, and the bits being washed down the bore with the excess fuel.
I think the fuel filter would be fine enough to filter average day to day debris that would be expected. The only thing I've ever seen similar to yours was where there was water in the fuel that caused rust on the inside of the pump, that then got scraped off on each day's restart and clagged up the injectors. I don't think that happened to you, as the Karl Fischer of the fuel was 0. I would expect to see 5-10PPM really in a 4 year old van that's had 100+ fillups. Big fat 0 is a bit odd. You would expect a bit of condensation on the inside of the tank over 4 years.
Your fuel test doesn't distinguish contamination being dirt or wear debris. A better fuel test would clarify this. Dragon say there is dirt in the tank. The test results show high counts of particles 2,5,15, etc micron part per ml, but they show contamination score of 0. Why do the ISO tests have n/a next to them ?! I'm losing confidence in your fuel test!
I don't think the cause is EGR failure, as that gets sucked in with the air, and wouldn't affect the fuel system, but could damage bores etc if there were chunks breaking away. Depending on the EGR failure, you often see loss of water before anything else.
I think we have to narrow it down to the HP pump failing and wear particles clogging the injectors for some reason. This could be a latent manufacturing fault in the pump or contamination introduced from when the fuel filter was last changed, or a faulty fuel filter, i.e. it wasn't assembled properly and unfiltered fuel is passing through it. When was the fuel filter last changed ? Main Dealer OEM or Indy pattern ?
I think everything else can be eliminated at this stage, but would like to hear others' views. This is a tricky failure to pin down, but also an interesting one to ponder. Breeze did reasonably well I think, as their average fitter will never have seen something like this, let alone be able to consider the causes. Dragon have now got the thing in bits and are looking though each assembly. The fact that their observations contradict the fuel test results need some consideration, hence my thoughts above.
Here's the last oil test results from my 120k mile Cayenne V8 diesel. Oil changed every 10k miles for TPS Longlife 5W40, always run on supermarket diesel;
And here's one from a Golf R at 3.5K miles, prior to running in oil change. See the high copper level from the shell bearings wearing in;
And here's one from a Golf R at 3.5K miles, prior to running in oil change. See the high copper level from the shell bearings wearing in;
Interesting thread started by @Ian Blewett today - good of him to be so helpful , this may shed a little more light on what happened. I need to keep on digging as it looks like there may be a known problem that's being suppressed. Must admit it's all rather frustrating that I have yet to feel confident that I've really got to the bottom of this yet.
That is interesting, but I’m really curious as to the EGR differences between 150 and 204/199, and exactly how fluid (and what fluid) leaks into the engine.
Maybe for another thread though.
There’s only one liquid fluid in the EGR unit, engine coolant.
I posted my concern before regarding a using a pressed steel construction cooler which is fixed in more than one place. Bolting it down at both ends doesn’t allow for thermal expansion and maybe causing coolant leaks.
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@dubLU thanks for the prompt - I'll update you all on what finally happened. I ended up having the engine rebuilt by Dragon Engines in Chesterfield who were fantastic even though it took them a while. But they checked and tested pretty much everything and only replaced what needed to be replaced unlike VW who wanted to replace everything. Having had them recommended I had my van relayed to them and they finally had the engine out and apart. They confirmed that fuel contamination was the root cause and after having had the fuel pump tested found that had started to disintegrate sending all sorts of stuff through the fuel system wrecking that, the injectors, washing the bores, hydrolocking and bending a rod on No1 cylinder.
Realising that this was going to go nowhere with VW as it was an external factor, I gave up any hope of VW contributing in any way. I then asked Dragon to make sure anything that was affected be sorted out properly without any shortcuts risking further issues. So they ended remanufacturing the engine, which I believe is new bottom end, pistons, rings, rods etc, new fuel pump, new fuel rail, new injectors, new glowplugs and they also found the EGR was faulty so replaced that. At the same time they replaced the cam belt and waterpump. The dpf was also cleaned as they have a means of doing that too. The bill was pretty eye-watering but it was half the price of what it would have cost if I'd gone the main dealer route. So whilst it stung like crazy I still feel like I maybe got off lightly.
The van now effectively has a new engine, runs perfectly again and at least I have a year's warranty. Saga over at last. Hats off to the guys at Dragon, when I went to pick the van up it was clear they have a lots of failed engines to deal with, as the AA trucks kept rolling up, but I felt they advised me wisely, had obviously seen this a lot before, and whilst the costs mounted up I never once felt like I was being seen off as they always looked for the most cost-effective solution within the parameters of ensuring the engine came out the other side as reliable as possible. They did mention that the more recent the van, the more they see of them, basically because of all the emissions stuff creating problems. They said that basically the engine is sound but as you bolt more emissions devices and systems on you get more trouble from them.
Realising that this was going to go nowhere with VW as it was an external factor, I gave up any hope of VW contributing in any way. I then asked Dragon to make sure anything that was affected be sorted out properly without any shortcuts risking further issues. So they ended remanufacturing the engine, which I believe is new bottom end, pistons, rings, rods etc, new fuel pump, new fuel rail, new injectors, new glowplugs and they also found the EGR was faulty so replaced that. At the same time they replaced the cam belt and waterpump. The dpf was also cleaned as they have a means of doing that too. The bill was pretty eye-watering but it was half the price of what it would have cost if I'd gone the main dealer route. So whilst it stung like crazy I still feel like I maybe got off lightly.
The van now effectively has a new engine, runs perfectly again and at least I have a year's warranty. Saga over at last. Hats off to the guys at Dragon, when I went to pick the van up it was clear they have a lots of failed engines to deal with, as the AA trucks kept rolling up, but I felt they advised me wisely, had obviously seen this a lot before, and whilst the costs mounted up I never once felt like I was being seen off as they always looked for the most cost-effective solution within the parameters of ensuring the engine came out the other side as reliable as possible. They did mention that the more recent the van, the more they see of them, basically because of all the emissions stuff creating problems. They said that basically the engine is sound but as you bolt more emissions devices and systems on you get more trouble from them.
Good to get the final diagnosis and I’m sure your glad it’s over.
As the fuel analysis was within specification it would appear that the fuel didn’t cause the HPP breakdown, at least not the fuel that was in the system when sampled.
Was there any other work carried out on the fuel system in the months leading up to the breakdown, routine servicing, hoses disconnected etc?
I completely agree!
But when the numpty dealers give the customer a run around, where does a non-mechanically minded customer go? This forum gives them access to impartial, free advice like you and others give that isn’t otherwise available!
(As opposed to smart arse comments that I give!)
I always knew my '16 plate EU5 engine was the ACME for these vans ;-)
Having had big bills with my old 2.5l T5, which were sorted by an independent, once the VW quote was swerved, I'm glad you've got an acceptable outcome. Stressful though, wouldn't you say?
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