and our confidence a bit too good luck and hope VW repair it for you as only 50,000 miles
Does anyone cleverer than me know if there is a relavent ombudsman or trading standards to help out? Maybe not because I presume your trade?
If I was you, I would be reading up on the Consumer Rights Act 2015. How long something should last is relative but I would suggest that something costing £30K+ (?) and which has also been looked after in accordance with the rules as dictated by the original manufacturer could reasonably be expected last longer than the 4 odd years that your van has. Have a look at sites such as Money Savings Expert who are usually very good at explaining this stuff in ways that even an idiot like me can understand. I seem to remember something about 6 years being a reasonable expectation but I could be wrong on that. In situations like yours, you're always better off arming yourself with all the right information before opening a dialogue on the repair and where responsibilities should lie.
westend_jon
New Member
Sorry to hear this story - as the owner of a Golf on which the Adaptive Cruise Control failed at four years and the Turbocharger a few weeks later I can appreciate how irritating the short life of major components can be and how expensive they are to resolve. At least VW paid for the Turbocharger. Makes me want to avoid Transporters with nice options because I just know they won't last.
So here is the main dealer assessment. I would be very interested in your valued opinions on best way out of this
"When investigating the vehicle for a potential miss fire, at first there was no engine warning lights on, therefore nothing to go by to begin diagnosis. We started off by carrying out a road test on the vehicle and whilst we were on the road the vehicle was bellowing out black and blue smoke from the exhaust, which indicates oil burning and over fuelling. On return to the workshop we repeated the tests that had already been carried out by another garage, so when testing the return flow of the injectors 1,2,3,+4 the readings at idle after 2 minutes were between 20/25ml where the limit is 25ml, so all injectors on an idle test were on the maximum limit. Flow rate test carried out again at fast idle for 2 minutes where the maximum limit is 65ml and injectors 1,2,3,+4 resulted in being between 70/75ml and are deemed un serviceable. Advice from our technical support team is, if all injectors have failed the return flow rate test then there is an underlining issue with the fuel system, the main components that cause this issue is partial break up of the high pressure fuel pump internally, which intern causes swarf to go around the fuel system and block all the major components. We have checked the fuel within the tank and there is no obvious sign of metal particles in the fuel but they are not always clear to the eye as it only takes shavings to cause the problem to begin with. Following this we carried out a cylinder compression test where the compressions can not be any more than a maximum of 5bar difference between cylinders with the pressures needing to be around 19bar pressure minimum across the 4 cylinders. Results from test were as follows CYL1=10.2Bar, CYL2=16.9Bar, CYL3=18.2Bar, CYL4=17.2Bar. As you can see there is a difference of 6.7Bar pressure between cylinders 1 and 2, yet cylinder 1 is also extremely low, with the pressure being this low it is evident that there is a significant engine issue internally. Our suspicion is putting all our findings together is that where the high pressure fuel pump has internally failed it has caused the injectors to block allowing excessive amounts of fuel to return and cause over fuelling where the unburnt fuel is then washing past the bores causing a potential hydro lock which may have bent cylinder 1 con rod, it will also cause the oil level to rise and exit through the exhaust ports and causing consequential damage to the catalytic converter and diesel particulate filter also."
"When investigating the vehicle for a potential miss fire, at first there was no engine warning lights on, therefore nothing to go by to begin diagnosis. We started off by carrying out a road test on the vehicle and whilst we were on the road the vehicle was bellowing out black and blue smoke from the exhaust, which indicates oil burning and over fuelling. On return to the workshop we repeated the tests that had already been carried out by another garage, so when testing the return flow of the injectors 1,2,3,+4 the readings at idle after 2 minutes were between 20/25ml where the limit is 25ml, so all injectors on an idle test were on the maximum limit. Flow rate test carried out again at fast idle for 2 minutes where the maximum limit is 65ml and injectors 1,2,3,+4 resulted in being between 70/75ml and are deemed un serviceable. Advice from our technical support team is, if all injectors have failed the return flow rate test then there is an underlining issue with the fuel system, the main components that cause this issue is partial break up of the high pressure fuel pump internally, which intern causes swarf to go around the fuel system and block all the major components. We have checked the fuel within the tank and there is no obvious sign of metal particles in the fuel but they are not always clear to the eye as it only takes shavings to cause the problem to begin with. Following this we carried out a cylinder compression test where the compressions can not be any more than a maximum of 5bar difference between cylinders with the pressures needing to be around 19bar pressure minimum across the 4 cylinders. Results from test were as follows CYL1=10.2Bar, CYL2=16.9Bar, CYL3=18.2Bar, CYL4=17.2Bar. As you can see there is a difference of 6.7Bar pressure between cylinders 1 and 2, yet cylinder 1 is also extremely low, with the pressure being this low it is evident that there is a significant engine issue internally. Our suspicion is putting all our findings together is that where the high pressure fuel pump has internally failed it has caused the injectors to block allowing excessive amounts of fuel to return and cause over fuelling where the unburnt fuel is then washing past the bores causing a potential hydro lock which may have bent cylinder 1 con rod, it will also cause the oil level to rise and exit through the exhaust ports and causing consequential damage to the catalytic converter and diesel particulate filter also."
There's a 204 engine on ebay currently (Vw t6 engine 204bhp, CXE in Perfect condition10k kilometers only(withoutGearbox) | eBay) with 10k kilometers on it for £3500. Most places seems to charge about £500 to fit an engine. That's a lot cheaper than £13k for a brand new one from VW. Would you consider this option as sensible or not touch with a bargepole?
This is definitely the option I would take! Do you know a good independent mechanic/garage to give you a second opinion on your van?
How much is a new DPF and CAT gonna cost too?
Just been speaking to Retro Resus who seem to have a lot of experience with failed VW engines and their causes - really helpful guys - and seem to be dealing with a lot of this type of thing - normally caused by emissions related components. They have suggested either new engine from them at less than half the cost of VW or the ebay engine which they can fit but obviously don't know the true history of the ebay engine. It would work out about £1500k more for the new engine over the ebay one but it would be 0 miles as opposed to 10k (or is that really 70k - cynical I know) miles.
They seemed to think the DPF and the CAT would probably be OK and there is the option of course of a DPF delete if I wanted that, which then makes the engines much more reliable in their opinion.
Their view is that this is pointing to a fuel pump problem caused by something not VW's responsibility and they will wash their hands of the problem.
The most ironic thing about all this, is that I was waiting to replace the van after I finish by current self build house project so that I could spend more on a new van and then every 3 years into the future. Now it's looking like I will never buy another VW, so VW will lose out, the dealer will lose out and I will be so disappointed as when they are going well they are great, but they cannot be trusted any longer in my view. I think with these modern T5's and T6's you either have one with a warranty or you get shot of it before you get landed with a big bill.
They seemed to think the DPF and the CAT would probably be OK and there is the option of course of a DPF delete if I wanted that, which then makes the engines much more reliable in their opinion.
Their view is that this is pointing to a fuel pump problem caused by something not VW's responsibility and they will wash their hands of the problem.
The most ironic thing about all this, is that I was waiting to replace the van after I finish by current self build house project so that I could spend more on a new van and then every 3 years into the future. Now it's looking like I will never buy another VW, so VW will lose out, the dealer will lose out and I will be so disappointed as when they are going well they are great, but they cannot be trusted any longer in my view. I think with these modern T5's and T6's you either have one with a warranty or you get shot of it before you get landed with a big bill.
Sounds like these Retro Resus boys definitely know what they are talking about. Looks like that’s the route to take and have them do you a DPF delete if they can code it all to have no problems going forward.
Get the eBay lump as it sounds like you may well be replacing the DPF and Cat too and that will push up that £7k... DPF delete is ok if you're going to drive the van into the ground but not if flogging on.
You still end up with a big bill if you sell at 3 years......depreciation. With the current van market it’s not as bad as other vehicles but it’s still a big hit.
I'm willing to stand corrected, but afaik, deleting the DPF is now illegal & an automatic MOT failure. MOT examiners are required to check if the DPF has been tampered with or removed, before they will test the vehicle. Like I said, I'm willing to be corrected, and there'll obviously be ways around it.
my Tuppence worth .... is it VW doing the testing . Would not replacing the con rod be the cheaper option even adding new rings and a check to cyl 2 . would also help stop the sump back pressure pushing the oil back up past the rings . they not saying its worn scratched damaged cylinders and not at 50k There would also be very excessive amount of diesel in the oil, that would be like water and up the dipstick . The smoke diesel is made of oil and if getting to much there will be a lot of smoke. burning off . Will VW redeem the cost of a faulty fuel pump and injectors @ only 50 k miles. as its not long out of warranty . wont know about the Cat till emission's run after its back together but surely would be cheaper than replacing the whole engine
Under the “You touched it last!” thread?!!
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