Iphone X Gps Behaving Badly With Apps Like Waze And Apple Maps Whilst In My T6

[dandan88]

@osman
I’m experiencing this issue right now, just purchased a Kenwood 8020 and I was expecting the Google maps to be bang on but it puts me across a field? But my iPhone has allways been perfect upon the dash! It’s doing my head in

I know this was posted two years ago but I’m now praying you have a great answer for me

Cheers
Dan

 

[BognorMotors]

Have you updated the software on the head unit?

 

[dandan88]

Absolut 5 told me to put the gps just above the left airvent on top of a small ledge which seems like a good idea

 

[dandan88]

How do I do that Oli I e literally just bought it yesterday from jason

 

[dandan88]

Just to clarify… I have checked the software on the Kenwood hu and it is the up to date version that Kenwood are offering on their website….

 

[osman]

For me the problem was both head units I tried had gps Ariel’s …they had built in sat nav .. both my alpine and kenwood head units boasted sat nav and apple car play …. Great except for this exact issue .. it was never resolved with software updates moving gos Ariel’s I even took my drivers door apart to connect to the existing gps Ariel in the wing mirror .. nothing stopped this issue returning again and again . Finally I returned both units for refunds re installed the original head with no gps or car play … and voila . No issues amd I just use my I phone for maps sat nav it works faultlessly

 

[dandan88]

So basically load of pointless s**t for £900

Why did I waste my money?

 

[dandan88]

If apple carplay is connected won’t my maps on my iPhone work tho because I guess I will just use my phone as normal with CarPlay connected to use Spotify etc

 

[Lightrofit]

So here is the basics of how CarPlay works with phone based navigation and external GPS antennas.

For wired CarPlay, the external GPS antenna is optional as the phones internal GPS antenna is the primary source for location data along with WiFi data from surrounding hubs and mobile signal data from masts. This also contributes to your vehicle speed data, something which used to require a wired connection to a vehicle speed pulse source and was still needed on some recent Kenwood units although I think this has ended.. An external GPS antenna will greatly increase the accuracy but this and the above all rely on perfect conditions.

With Wireless CarPlay, the external antenna is mandatory due to the likelihood of the phone being somewhere that will cause reception issues (such as in your pocket in bag, glovebox etc). So this needs to be considered when location the antenna.

Issues: there can be a number of causes for issues with the GPS signal with the main ones being:

1. Local interference from devices in the vehicle

2. Poorly located GPS antenna

3. Multiple apps using GPS data

So with the above in mind, the easiest to check is if any apps on your phone are causing issues. This may sound backwards but firstly you want to OPEN the navigation app you're using with CarPlay (it may not be open as an app on your phone) and then close down ALL the apps including the navigation app. Then, on your head unit, open the navigation app and punch (not literally) your address data in again and see if that clears the issue.

Next, check for any cheap devices like NoName phone chargers, dash cams and alike that may be emitting interference. Cheap LEDs are a culprit for this too. Even aftermarket LED headlight bulbs can cause trouble. This is also a good DAB killer.

Lastly, the dreaded GPS antenna itself. They historically hate being underneath any metallic surface. They love being on top of metallic surfaces. They love being flat facing the sky and hate facing downwards. Some devices are ok with reflective GPS but this is more in the tracker dept and not head unit GPS.

They used to come with a sticky metal tab to put underneath the antenna but then started to make them with metal built into the case. However, I always recommend mounting them to a metal surface.

Bonus nugget of info: Some headunits get their time data from the GPS signal too.

 

[osman]

So here is the basics of how CarPlay works with phone based navigation and external GPS antennas.

For wired CarPlay, the external GPS antenna is optional as the phones internal GPS antenna is the primary source for location data along with WiFi data from surrounding hubs and mobile signal data from masts. This also contributes to your vehicle speed data, something which used to require a wired connection to a vehicle speed pulse source and was still needed on some recent Kenwood units although I think this has ended.. An external GPS antenna will greatly increase the accuracy but this and the above all rely on perfect conditions.

With Wireless CarPlay, the external antenna is mandatory due to the likelihood of the phone being somewhere that will cause reception issues (such as in your pocket in bag, glovebox etc). So this needs to be considered when location the antenna.

Issues: there can be a number of causes for issues with the GPS signal with the main ones being:

1. Local interference from devices in the vehicle

2. Poorly located GPS antenna

3. Multiple apps using GPS data

So with the above in mind, the easiest to check is if any apps on your phone are causing issues. This may sound backwards but firstly you want to OPEN the navigation app you're using with CarPlay (it may not be open as an app on your phone) and then close down ALL the apps including the navigation app. Then, on your head unit, open the navigation app and punch (not literally) your address data in again and see if that clears the issue.

Next, check for any cheap devices like NoName phone chargers, dash cams and alike that may be emitting interference. Cheap LEDs are a culprit for this too. Even aftermarket LED headlight bulbs can cause trouble. This is also a good DAB killer.

Lastly, the dreaded GPS antenna itself. They historically hate being underneath any metallic surface. They love being on top of metallic surfaces. They love being flat facing the sky and hate facing downwards. Some devices are ok with reflective GPS but this is more in the tracker dept and not head unit GPS.

They used to come with a sticky metal tab to put underneath the antenna but then started to make them with metal built into the case. However, I always recommend mounting them to a metal surface.

Bonus nugget of info: Some headunits get their time data from the GPS signal too.

One unit was wireless CarPlay .. the kenwood .. much of the time it worked ok ish but would fail at the most inconvenient of moments .
This unit was also subject to dust under the screen issues so had to go . Then I got the alpine halo with wired car play … this was totally unreliable it would work for a short period perfectly and then for reasons unexplained would just start telling me I’m driving around 100 ft to the right .. it was never resolved despite different gps antenna multiple head units and the alpine team on the case…. eventually they offered a full refund . Problem was never solved .
But my iPhone works perfectly on its own so I just use that now. But with audio connected via Bluetooth.

 

[osman]

So basically load of pointless s**t for £900

Why did I waste my money?

I totally relate to this … I seriously did everything and spent the most money you could and just gave up in the end .
The phone works fine on its own .
I wonder if in my case it was just the model of t6 ….something is wrong with it as both alpine and kenwood CarPlay and sat nav enabled head units failed . The kenwood also used a connection to the dash to get its speed info … didn’t help one bit still a pain in the ass unreliable bag of shit. Just to be super clear all sat nav was useless the included sat nav on the head units and the car play from the phone .. some gps conflict for sure . But never resolved despite trying everything possible . And I’m talking alpine not just me . With kenwood the support is so pathetic I would never ever use another product from that company

 

[Oceanis]

If you use Carplay or Android Auto, then the vehicle system is supplying the GNSS info to the phone. It is required to get Carplay or Android Auto certification.

Optional for wired and mandatory for wireless connections.

This is a slide from the Apple Developer web site ...



This means you need to ensure the GPS system of the Head-Unit is properly installed and has a clear view of the sky for best performance.

Everything you ever wanted to know about CarPlay and more is in this presentation from Apple.

Developing CarPlay Systems, Part 1 - WWDC16 - Videos - Apple Developer

CarPlay is a smarter, safer way to use your iPhone in the car. Learn how CarPlay works and how to design your car's infotainment system...

developer.apple.com

This does not necessarily mean that 3rd party apps running on the phone will be provided with this info. Apple (and Google) requested access to the car GPS and dead-reckoning data to enhance Apple Maps and Google Maps navigation capability - not necessarily to make 3rd party navigation apps work better.

 

[dandan88]

@Lightrofit

Thanks for the in-depth response, I’m thinking to just use the car play via the usb to then use the gps on the phone instead of the one attached to the HU. I hope this works,

Haven’t tried it yet but I’m getting excited that it’ll work, let’s hope it does.

Really appreciate all of your input on this one guys. Just glad I’m nOt the only one with this sh**** issue!

Cheers again

Anything else you can add aswell anyone on this…. Most appreciated

Cheers

 

[dandan88]

@Oceanis you say…Optional for wired and mandatory for wireless connections.

Is there actually an option to select wired use phone….or wireless use van gps…or does it automatically start using the phone if you use a wired connection? Or am I being stupid on this one?

 

[osman]

If you use Carplay or Android Auto, then the vehicle system is supplying the GNSS info to the phone. It is required to get Carplay or Android Auto certification.

Optional for wired and mandatory for wireless connections.

This is a slide from the Apple Developer web site ...

View attachment 174685

This means you need to ensure the GPS system of the Head-Unit is properly installed and has a clear view of the sky for best performance.

Everything you ever wanted to know about CarPlay and more is in this presentation from Apple.

Developing CarPlay Systems, Part 1 - WWDC16 - Videos - Apple Developer

CarPlay is a smarter, safer way to use your iPhone in the car. Learn how CarPlay works and how to design your car's infotainment system...

developer.apple.com

This does not necessarily mean that 3rd party apps running on the phone will be provided with this info. Apple (and Google) requested access to the car GPS and dead-reckoning data to enhance Apple Maps and Google Maps navigation capability - not necessarily to make 3rd party navigation apps

@Oceanis you say…Optional for wired and mandatory for wireless connections.

Is there actually an option to select wired use phone….or wireless use van gps…or does it automatically start using the phone if you use a wired connection? Or am I being stupid on this one?

As far as I recall it will still use your phone wirelessly despite being connected .. it uses the connection to set up to begin with ( if I recall correctly ) but then goes wireless with no options to choose also if you play around with the android part the apple car play settings get wrecked , the kenwood operating system is toyish at best if I’m honest .. as I said their support is the worst I’ve come across so good luck getting this sorted I wish you all the best but in my experience they are unhelpful and the settings do not contain what you are hoping for . I also recall that it uses both Bluetooth and wireless to work correctly for the whole set up is a pita in my opinion it would cut out completely if in an area where there is interference…just horrible in my experience and that before I get to the dust under the screen issues … yuk .
Alpine halo sounds better as it has a better power amp but that has a noisy fan and the screen is low res plus the gps when used with an iPhone XS Max in my t6 was terrible just a constant problem to solve … life is far too short .. why someone cannot make a decent set up that wipes the floor with these garbage toys is beyond me .

 

[Oceanis]

PS: Watch the video from 14:33 Onwards to see how the iPhone connects to the CarPlay HU and what connection speeds are expected.

@Oceanis you say…Optional for wired and mandatory for wireless connections.

Is there actually an option to select wired use phone….or wireless use van gps…or does it automatically start using the phone if you use a wired connection? Or am I being stupid on this one?

When you pair your iPhone over Bluetooth and start CarPlay (usually a separate option) then the details of the WiFi will be shared with the phone over Bluetooth, the Phone will connect over WiFi, disconnect from Bluetooth, and from that point on all data (audio and video) will be routed over the WiFi connection - even if the phone is also connected over USB.

The USB connection has been demoted to legacy with all new CarPlay features only working over WiFi.

If your iPhone is not paired with the vehicle (Bluetooth), and you connect it via USB, it may give you a USB CarPlay option dependent on the IOS and HU versions (don't know your HU as I work on OEM systems) but the in-vehicle USB connections to iPhones are also Apple bespoke with the devices swapping roles where the car becomes the device and the iPhone the host (from a USB perspective). This was mandated by Apple as all USB Apple accessories take the USB device role - caused us no end of headaches in development.

 

[dandan88]

Literally just sat in the van turned on my Google maps then plugged in the usb cable with Google maps still up went onto the head unit and maps and the location moved about 30 metres, looked at my fone and that moved aswell!
Unplugged the cable and the location on my phone went back to normal!
What a total pile of crap it’s pure pointless useless and a total waste of money I even pulled the dash off and pulled the gps box out and put ontop of the dash and nothing it didn’t even bat an eyelid
Literally was about to lob it down the road with the head unit! And to top it off I turned the CarPlay off on my phone connected it to the hu via Bluetooth and then I couldn’t get it to connect back to CarPlay no matter what I did (wirelessly) by the way. In the end I played with it tuning it on/off on my phone plugging it in and still nothing with CarPlay.
In the end it did connect somehow I don’t know how but it did, so morale of the story is disconnecting it from car play and using Bluetooth then trying to reverse that and connect back to CarPlay is ridiculously difficult