EGR Delete

[Mooncat]

Was Involved with tuning Peugeot’s many moons ago deleting egrs and getting rid of the additive injection and remapping and tbh yes the power increases with remapping were great and a lot of the time improved mpg but when the egrs were deleted that’s when the problems came with lots of top end damage mainly due to increased combustion temperatures, so until someone has done theirs on a t6 and run it for 50,000 miles at least I’ll be keeping mine lol

It's a strange one as once you start to pressurise the intake system the EGR has to close otherwise all of the compressed air from the turbo is sent backwards through the EGR system into the exhaust so you'd think that under load there would be no combustion temperature issues with a blanked EGR but these failures are real.

A different type of EGR removal issue I'm aware of is around an EGR delete module that was developed in Australia for Mitsubishi Tritons (L200). This bodge plugged into the MAF/Inlet temperature sensor and basically told the ECU that the temperature was always below the threshold for the EGR to function. Owners of the DPF equipped versions of this vehicle started to get diesel diluting the oil because of failed DPF regenerations if they ran this module. The theory behind this delete module was good but it was done by people that didn't know exactly how the engine had been calibrated for performing DPF regenerations and the result was the sump filling with diesel that was being forced past the piston rings as the regen process was taking much longer than normal. They also didn't consider that the engine was also running on a part of the calibration intended for cold ambient temperature.

 

[Niknak]

You could on earlier vag move the paramiters so the eve did not function not looked at it again due to the damage that can be done the reason behind reducing combustion temps is that it’s burning exhaust emissions which is preburnt there for nothing to fuel the burn. As in the full charge of air and fuel is comprised by exhaust gas which will basically dilute the air, again I’d quite happily remove and clean mine and maintain it then destroy my engine been there done it

 

[Deleted member 22223]

The EGR can only be open during idle and overrun, all other situations when under turbo boost the EGR must be shut otherwise manifold boost pressure would just be dumped back into the exhaust. As for combustion temp, this is only reduced at idle to reduce NOX. This is however instantaneous burn temp, the cooling system is under more load during higher throttle positions, and the EGR is shut then. If you want to cool combustion temps under all loads fit a water methanol kit.
Regarding DPF, I can only think that during DPF regen the EGR actually opens under turbo boost to feed clean air rich in oxygen to the exhaust and ultimately DPF to help burn off the particulate.
On some systems the EGR may also help the ECU know when to initiate DPF regen by using the MAP sensor. If when the EGR opens and the MAP detects a higher pressure than expected this indicates a restriction in the exhaust, such a situation as when the DPF is getting full.
All only guess work.
Ultimately delete DPF and EGR and fit water meth.

 

[huw169]

I believe the EGR is closed when cold, idling, or the engine under load. Only fully open when under steady load, so along a motorway.
However, there seems to be some good knowledge on this thread so i'm sure I will be corrected if I'm wrong.
I only do short journeys so doubt my EGR is ever open.
The DPF is a whole other issue for my driving pattern...

Great discussion this!

 

[Deleted member 22223]

I'll set up my data logger to record throttle position, EGR status and manifold pressure. That should give a clear indication of the actural operation. It would be nice if I can capture a regen like this as well. It may take a few hours of driving to get the full picture, but at least we will all be clear on what is actually happening.

 

[Loz]

If when the EGR opens and the MAP detects a higher pressure than expected this indicates a restriction in the exhaust, such a situation as when the DPF is getting full.

DPF is measured with a differential pressure sensor fed by 2 pipes, one on the inlet and the other on the outlet of the DPF.

Have a read of SSP-446 for DPF and AdBlue operation. (although this is the crafter the T6 engine SSP refers to this for reference)

 

[Deleted member 22223]

DPF is measured with a differential pressure sensor fed by 2 pipes, one on the inlet and the other on the outlet of the DPF.

Have a read of SSP-446 for DPF and AdBlue operation. (although this is the crafter the T6 engine SSP refers to this for reference)

Thank you for this, do you have one for EGR operation as well? From your description it seems EGR is not used to trigger DPF regen, so I'm interested to see what part it plays in this, if at all.

 

[Robert]

Thank you for this, do you have one for EGR operation as well? From your description it seems EGR is not used to trigger DPF regen, so I'm interested to see what part it plays in this, if at all.

Perhaps this might help a little bit.



I believe this is EURO5 but EURO6 setup should be quite alike. It starts at page 31.

 

[huw169]

I've been out of the diesel engine industry for over a decade now - what I can say however is that the company I worked for went through as many emission regulation changes as possible before adding a cooled EGR system. The main reason for not wanting to go along the EGR route was not regarding carbon build up in the inlet manifold but the issues around taking heat out of the exhaust gases before they were fed into the inlet manifold. Once you've absorbed that heat into the cooling system you have to get rid of it.

One of the pieces of the puzzle is that by deleting the egr, the engine will run a bit hotter. But if you also don’t have to cool the exhaust gases before they enter the combustion chamber, then the effect may be neutralised. Or even result in a cooler engine overall?

 

[DaveD]

One of the pieces of the puzzle is that by deleting the egr, the engine will run a bit hotter. But if you also don’t have to cool the exhaust gases before they enter the combustion chamber, then the effect may be neutralised. Or even result in a cooler engine overall?

Years ago I deleted the EGR valve on a 2.0D Landrover Freelander (BMW engine) which was extremely simple compared to our T6's.
The performance was instantly improved, the engine ran smoother too, but from cold the engine took longer to warm up, much longer.

 

[huw169]

I did the same to my 2.5 T4 using the coke can shim method, but I really don’t recall any changes. It just spat the cloggy shit out of the exhaust for years which clung to my back doors! Ooer.

 

[Chrispyduck]

Just come across this thread as i am having issues with EGR unit on 2017 T6. Has anyone actually re-mapped and deleted the EGR unit????

 

[Lukavell]

Not on a T6 but I did on my T5 coupled with a DPF delete, got it remapped at the same by a crap company so it was hard to see what caused the changes. Never had any problems at MOT.

 

[Peter Rhymes]

I had EGR failure in January called the guy who remapped my van. and he remapped the EGR out passed MOT with flying colours in September

Hi, does your van use Adblue ? How much did the remap cost ? And can you tell me who did it ? Cheers, Pete.

Just come across this thread as i am having issues with EGR unit on 2017 T6. Has anyone actually re-mapped and deleted the EGR unit????

Hi have you had it done ? I also have had problems with the EGR.

Hi Guys and Gals,
has anyone done an EGR delete on a T6 that uses Adblue ?
if so did you have to delete the DPF ?
Asking for a friend…Not.

 

[Ali-G]

As @Peter Rhymes asks, has anyone had their EGR deleted yet?
My Van went into the garage today for a service, cam belt and an EGR investigation after I kept getting the old P0401 “Insufficient flow” fault code.
The garage rang this afternoon to say the EGR needs replacing at a cost of around £1100, or they can “code it out” for £300. They also mentioned that they could “map out” the Adblue. I asked about MOT’s and emissions and they assured me that I wouldn’t have any problems. I told them to go ahead but having read this thread with some people saying do it and some saying don’t, I’m now having second thoughts.
So as above, anyone done it and would you recommend it?

 

[mmi]

I kept getting the old P0401 “Insufficient flow” fault code.

Just the code? Or also emission light (the yellow engine symbol)?

 

[DXX]

As @Peter Rhymes asks, has anyone had their EGR deleted yet?
My Van went into the garage today for a service, cam belt and an EGR investigation after I kept getting the old P0401 “Insufficient flow” fault code.
The garage rang this afternoon to say the EGR needs replacing at a cost of around £1100, or they can “code it out” for £300. They also mentioned that they could “map out” the Adblue. I asked about MOT’s and emissions and they assured me that I wouldn’t have any problems. I told them to go ahead but having read this thread with some people saying do it and some saying don’t, I’m now having second thoughts.
So as above, anyone done it and would you recommend it?

Modifying your vehicle’s emissions: the legal, safety and health implications

www.gov.uk

It could cost you £2500 and the work to correct it if you get caught out.
I bet the garage doesn‘t offer a detailed receipt for the work.

 

[Catagonia]

You're living in fantasy land if you think anyone is ever going to prosecute you for removing your DPF. The only people who enforce vehicle emissions regulations are VOSA, and they barely have the capacity to inspect 1% of commercial vehicles; they wouldn't even come into contact with a private motorist. This construction and use section would apply to nearly every single person who has had a remap since Euro4.

Plus with it being construction and use legislation any changes in output would be based upon benchmarking against the manufacturers stated figures during type approval.... for which one of the biggest class action classes in history is currently going through with regards to these figures being produced fraudulently...

 

[DXX]

There was a bit of a faff in the news about something to do with the climate today. If anybody thinks that it’s going to be business as usual in a few year time then I think they maybe in living in a fantasy.
The easy option for the Gov‘ is to tighten MOT checks and remove the testers licence if they pass ‘illegal’ vehicles.

 

[Catagonia]

Fair point, and I do agree that there will be more checks in the future; but the MOT infrastructure will be nowhere near ready for it until another decade at least.
Removal of the EGR / DPF will actually improve the greenhouse gas emissions at the exhaust, if mapped correctly.


Also bear in mind that EGR / DPF / Adblue deals exclusively with NOx emissions, with Euro 6 being primarily about 'cleaner city air'. The equipment required for measuring these kinds of emissions is way out of the reach of an mot station. It's far more likely that they will check greenhouse gas output in the future, but it appears they are focusing far more on E10 petrol. The Gov are just not interested in checking up on the 0.01% of diesel owners who may have altered their factory fit emissions system, the problem is far bigger than that. By the time we come round to getting our next vans we will most likely have a choice between small petrol or EV.