Camper conversion electrics system- does this look right?

[DentedT6.1]

Thanks for all your comments- as an interesting update, I sent our converter over the loose plan of components and uses- his response was he would recommend a Clayton Power setup! I may be missing something, but I can't see the appeal of a Clayton over a decent leisure battery- it still needs a fair amount of wiring, it's only 100Ah (the £2,000 one) and you don't save tons of space. I get it's good having your charger, battery and inverter all in one- but for a minimum of £2,000 when you still need to wire in a EHU and hook it up to all the components... it just doesn't seem worth the money?

 

[Bav]

Thanks for all your comments- as an interesting update, I sent our converter over the loose plan of components and uses- his response was he would recommend a Clayton Power setup! I may be missing something, but I can't see the appeal of a Clayton over a decent leisure battery- it still needs a fair amount of wiring, it's only 100Ah (the £2,000 one) and you don't save tons of space. I get it's good having your charger, battery and inverter all in one- but for a minimum of £2,000 when you still need to wire in a EHU and hook it up to all the components... it just doesn't seem worth the money?

If you don't have use for the Clayton outside of the van and if you don't have a need to be able to remove the Clayton from the van, then I agree with you.

 

[Drive Wayne]

I would go for individual components, 200Ah battery, Fogstar, Ecoworthy, Roamer if you can afford it! 2000 watt pure sine wave inverter, 150-200 watt solar panel, decent B2B, you could well get change out of £2k. With a system like that you can do all the lovely things you want to do with no battery anxiety (until the solar panel packs in) but even then driving will put power back in to the battery. If individual parts fail, it's easy to change them, no major hassle.
There are lovers of Clayton out there but it's not for me!

 

[roadtripper]

Claytons are getting popular with converters because they are very effective and simple to install units for people that expect home levels of mains power. For a converter the work is back to the days of simple split charge relay level.of.woring and a couple of sockets in the van as the Clayton does everything else inside.

The current issue is the original market is for work vans where if you need long runtimes you just run the engine.so they are easy for converters and very capable mains wise, fast charging but only have limited run time if you are really drawing on the mains side off grid.

I really quite like them but if you want maximum off grid runtime then you can do that for similar budget in equipment, though your converter may charge you more labour time as it is more work for them.

One is currently on test with @Dellmassive, will be interesting to see how it stacks up against their large lithium installs and self build power packs:

[Guide] Clayton LPS II 2500 - 1kWh (leisure battery + Inverter) -- How I Done It --

[Guide] Clayton LPS II 2500 - 1kWh (leisure battery + Inverter) -- How I Done It -- (@Dellmassive) its finally happened, I've dipped my toes into the dark side of 12v leisure electrics. The Clayton LPS II - the All In One ( 12v lifepo4 battery, dc-dc charger, 240v inverter, solar MPPT...

www.t6forum.com

 

[Drive Wayne]

I would go for individual components, 200Ah battery, Fogstar, Ecoworthy, Roamer if you can afford it! 2000 watt pure sine wave inverter, 150-200 watt solar panel, decent B2B, you could well get change out of £2k. With a system like that you can do all the lovely things you want to do with no battery anxiety (until the solar panel packs in) but even then driving will put power back in to the battery. If individual parts fail, it's easy to change them, no major hassle.
There are lovers of Clayton out there but it's not for me!

As a side point, even at this time of year with very little solar input and not much driving (my Birmingham daily commute is on 2 wheels) my leisure battery is usually on or close to 100% full. I am on the lookout for a portable battery, Bluetti or the like to syphon off some of that 'free power' to power all sorts of things in the house. I hate the thought of available power going to waste!

 

[Samro]

Thanks for all your comments- as an interesting update, I sent our converter over the loose plan of components and uses- his response was he would recommend a Clayton Power setup! I may be missing something, but I can't see the appeal of a Clayton over a decent leisure battery- it still needs a fair amount of wiring, it's only 100Ah (the £2,000 one) and you don't save tons of space. I get it's good having your charger, battery and inverter all in one- but for a minimum of £2,000 when you still need to wire in a EHU and hook it up to all the components... it just doesn't seem worth the money?

I agree with you.

Losing individual components in areas of a small vehicle is reasonably easy, so long as plenty of thought goes into where hardware can be positioned to make best use of space. That isn't going to be the case with a Clayton unit.

I suspect that the converter is wanting an easy life as the Clayton will be "easy to throw in", with little more requirement than thought on the position of the Clayton.

If you wanted to use the Clayton outside of the vehicle then it becomes more appealing, but I would be slightly worried that if you have a fault with a component of a Clayton once warranty has expired, you will be in for the full cost to replace the entire unit.

You are in the process of putting together your ideal vehicle and it may be possible that you are not actually sure what your true requirements are at this stage.

My advice would be to keep it simple, but futureproof. I would ensure that you have decent size cabling, pre-wiring for solar and any other future requirements that you may anticipate in the future, but go with the biggest lithium battery you can afford (and fit in the chosen location) and also ensure that all cable sizes are significantly larger gauge than you initially need. Decent "expandability" is key when you are at the stage that you are currently at.

 

[Drive Wayne]

Thanks for all your comments- as an interesting update, I sent our converter over the loose plan of components and uses- his response was he would recommend a Clayton Power setup! I may be missing something, but I can't see the appeal of a Clayton over a decent leisure battery- it still needs a fair amount of wiring, it's only 100Ah (the £2,000 one) and you don't save tons of space. I get it's good having your charger, battery and inverter all in one- but for a minimum of £2,000 when you still need to wire in a EHU and hook it up to all the components... it just doesn't seem worth the money?

Hi @DentedT6.1 , have a look at roamer.com , lovely website giving good accounts of their lovely gear! It just so happens they have a January sale on, bizarrely until the end of January! Theres a lovely 230Ah at less than a grand at the moment, that could well be the 'beating heart' of your installation. Great company to deal with, fabulous products 10 year guarantee. Its only money apparently!
I have the older model 200Ah, nearly 3 years old, faultless. If you were going to do the winter thing they do an 'extreme' range of batteries which will operate at sub zero temperatures. Well worth a look! Quite a few of us on here with their products.

 

[Salty Spuds]

I agree with you.

Losing individual components in areas of a small vehicle is reasonably easy, so long as plenty of thought goes into where hardware can be positioned to make best use of space. That isn't going to be the case with a Clayton unit.

I suspect that the converter is wanting an easy life as the Clayton will be "easy to throw in", with little more requirement than thought on the position of the Clayton.

If you wanted to use the Clayton outside of the vehicle then it becomes more appealing, but I would be slightly worried that if you have a fault with a component of a Clayton once warranty has expired, you will be in for the full cost to replace the entire unit.

You are in the process of putting together your ideal vehicle and it may be possible that you are not actually sure what your true requirements are at this stage.

My advice would be to keep it simple, but futureproof. I would ensure that you have decent size cabling, pre-wiring for solar and any other future requirements that you may anticipate in the future, but go with the biggest lithium battery you can afford (and fit in the chosen location) and also ensure that all cable sizes are significantly larger gauge than you initially need. Decent "expandability" is key when you are at the stage that you are currently at.

Wise words

 

[DentedT6.1]

Thanks all! Think we're a lot more comfortable with it now, going to do some musing over the location, but will be a lithium battery (we will investigate the various ones shown- but do like the Fogstar 105Ah so far) and we'll likely stick with EHU for our comforts in the first hand- if we find we're off grid and missing the toaster/kettle etc. then we'll get upgraded next year. Definitely no desire to take the power out of the van so I won't be opting for a Clayton!

We're going to see the guys at Seaside Campers tomorrow morning (partnered with Van Furniture) to look over their U Bed setup, and they've offered to talk us through some electrical options too, so will take the advice there and see what's what

Cheers all!

 

[TonyM]

On another note, the Victron DC-DC charger gets really hot and reduces its output accordingly when it is too hot. It is difficult to mount in a tight space and provide sufficient airflow over the heatsink. I have needed to fit an ignition switched fan to mine, which is sub-optimal.
Bearing in mind the Victron DC-DC chargers are reasonably dumb and not capable of being networked, I would go for the Renogy DC-DC charger if I were doing my install again as these are fan cooled and seem like a good option on paper, although I've not ever had any first hand experience with one.

@DentedT6.1 There is a new version of the Victron DC-DC charger out now that fixes both these issues. More capacity, better efficiency so it doesn't get so hot & can now be networked if required. See the Victron site here.

The 12-12 is out now. The 12-24 won't be out until later in the year, which is a pain as I'm doing the current van build at 24V, so I'll have to fit the older 12-24 for now. If anyone wants a cheap, nearly new 12-24 DC-DC charger later this year, I will have one for sale!

 

[roadtripper]

Welcome to forum @TonyM

@Dellmassive has one of the first batch of Orion XS on test if you are interested, so early it has the development branding and is recieving quite a lot of firmware updates it seems, but looks like it will be a very promising option:

[Guide] DC-DC Charger (for leisure battery) -- How I Done It --

Factory fitted parking heater, which has a role in heating the engine as well, in cold temperatures, is wired to the second battery for cars until 2018 (as I have read a few posts in here). I guess I need to see how the harnesses go under the seat, and if it really is true or it actually takes...

www.t6forum.com

 

[TonyM]

@roadtripper Thanks for the welcome. I'd forgotten that was my first post on here! Been lurking for a while. Had a T4 SWB camper until about 10 years ago, moved up in size to a Fiat Ducato Maxi based PVC & now moving back down in size to a T6.1 LWB. Conversion in progress as we speak, but based on 24V electrics (no gas), so I will have to wait a while for the 12-24V version to be released. I'll have to use the old style unit in the meantime.

Yes, it does look like it will be a good bit of kit - probably what the older model should have been in the first place!