Are EVs the way forward?

[Frigo110]

Over 100 (non cat N etc) under 5 year old EV's under £10k within 50 miles of me. Plenty to choose from; Zoe, Leaf, E-Up, 208, corsa, smart forFour, MG ZS, Ioniq... Etc.

That's in Kent so obviously in more rural areas there choice might be less.

My money would still be on an older i3, they must be close to the bottom of the depreciation now, and I doubt anything like that win be made again soon - full carbon tub chassis etc.

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33kwh model for 10k seems about right.

I don´t think that you can convince a "good old diesel" owner with a 100 miles range car. The air is getting noticeably thinner if you want a 2 in front.
Don´t need to sell it to my - I´m on my second EV and #3 has been ordered.

 

[TallPaul_S]

I don´t think that you can convince a "good old diesel" owner with a 100 miles range car. The air is getting noticeably thinner if you want a 2 in front.
Don´t need to sell it to my - I´m on my second EV and #3 has been ordered.

Oh god no - and EV's if you want an easy several hundred mile range with zero refueling worry just don't work at the moment. Both in terms of cost and reliability of charging!!

 

[Stay Frosty]

@Frigo110 how many miles per full charge would you reckon for the 58 kWh id3 you have at this time of the year and how much difference for the 77 kWh battery plus heat pump rather than resistive cabin heating?
Just thinking out loud as I'm guessing a 300 mile round trip might be a bit of an ask as would recharging at the in-laws when we visit them... to be honest he's a climate sceptic and I would hate to be beholding to him or worse pay 70 pence per kWh.

 

[FerrisBFW]

We have a Merc EQA and I can get 285 in the summer driving like a monk to and from my Dad's London to deepest SW. Short and medium trips with no real luggage its brilliant. When I did the sums years ago it made perfect sense if we are doing over 10k miles pa. We have a drive, a charger and charge it during the night on Economy7 or my wife work were its free. She goes in once a week.

Stick a roof-box and bike on it and it plummets, but its still cheaper than my Caravelle. We use the Caravelle as a very occasional second car and big trips/camping/mtb/etc.

When I drive my van, which I love driving, locally instead of the Merc it really feels wrong and a bad way of doing car transportation. Mostly for the start/stop effeciency of an EV not the fact it still is really bad for the environment.

I do cycle a lot, in fact more than driving both cars some years, but you are right they are expensive. When I did the maths we compared with a loan for say a £25k or a £15k car v leasing an EV it does stack up like I said if we do more than say 10k miles, which we did, but now dont..

I must admit we default a lot more to the EV than I ever thought we would because 99% of our journeys are really local dropping kids here and there and shopping etc. We could do with a slightly bigger car than the Merc EQA next time as my boys are now both almost 6' tall. I think we have got our cars right now, but its taken a few goes at it.

 

[dubber36]

There is much mention here about 'cheap' EVs priced at around the £10k mark. That's all well and good, but that's still way out of reach for many families that can only afford to have one car. They will generally buy a car for let's say £2000 and keep it going on a shoe string for 4-5 years. Just have a look around and see how many 20 year old cars there are still driving around today.

EVs have their place for many people most of the time, but I still maintain that proper car is needed as well.

 

[Frigo110]

There is much mention here about 'cheap' EVs priced at around the £10k mark. That's all well and good, but that's still way out of reach for many families that can only afford to have one car. They will generally buy a car for let's say £2000 and keep it going on a shoe string for 4-5 years. Just have a look around and see how many 20 year old cars there are still driving around today.

EVs have their place for many people most of the time, but I still maintain that proper car is needed as well.

Not next year and not the year after but at one point the "cheap" ICE market will disappear and then there is the open question if there will be ever a 2K EV...
With increasing company car tax the main market for young second hand cars will be flooded with 3 year old EV´s and little ICE´s.

Regarding the 20 years - you´re right but the UK has one of the youngest average aged car markets in the world with around 7-9 years (depending on which statistic and the time bracket). Even "rich" countries like Luxembourg are not much younger. Even the big car country germany has older cars (I´m allowed to say that )

 

[Stay Frosty]

There is much mention here about 'cheap' EVs priced at around the £10k mark. That's all well and good, but that's still way out of reach for many families that can only afford to have one car. They will generally buy a car for let's say £2000 and keep it going on a shoe string for 4-5 years. Just have a look around and see how many 20 year old cars there are still driving around today.

EVs have their place for many people most of the time, but I still maintain that proper car is needed as well.

A 20 year old car even in it's most basic trim level has early versions of all the current tech on present day cars and is cheap to run only if the owner fixes the car themselves.
Going back in time to my BMW E90 320d on a 55 plate and 11 yrs old at the time, the abs reluctor rings on the back axle rusted out expanding and beheading the abs sensors, taking out the abs pump ECU.
I still liked the car at that point but spending £1,100 cash with a friendly local garage on a car that was probably worth £2,500 was plain stupid.

 

[dubber36]

A 20 year old car even in it's most basic trim level has early versions of all the current tech on present cars and is cheap to run only if the owner fixes the car themselves.
Going back in time to my BMW E90 320d on a 55 plate and 11 yrs old at the time, the abs reluctor rings on the back axle rusted out expanding and beheading the abs sensors, taking out the abs pump ECU.
I still liked the car at that point but spending £1,100 cash with a friendly local garage on a car that was probably worth £2,500 was plain stupid.

Not necessarily. Spending £1,100 on repairs and knowing that you have a good car under you is a safer bet than gambling on another second hand car that you have no idea about.

 

[Sackmycook]

Kia PV5 / PV7 anyone ?

 

[TallPaul_S]

Kia PV5 / PV7 anyone ?

Was literally just reading about them, looks very interesting and the Kia design language at the moment is very bold, which I like!

 

[Sackmycook]

You must have the same 'feed' as me !
Looks interesting to say the least at around £30k and could seriously dent the ID Buzz and VW Transit market..

 

[Lubrown]

Not necessarily. Spending £1,100 on repairs and knowing that you have a good car under you is a safer bet than gambling on another second hand car that you have no idea about.

It’s all swings and roundabouts. More and more ICE cars have wet belts these days. Or other issues (I know not ‘cheap’ but look at how many 204hp T6s are needing a new engine or a lot of work after just a few years). Most of us probably agree the ‘fixes’ manufacturers have used to meet emissions targets are not great for reliability or longevity- and these will be the ‘cheap’ second hand vehicles hitting the market just before earlier EVs.
People might be able to buy a cheap ICE car but can they afford to maintain it and will it last even if they can’t?
Wet belts replacements at 40k, DPF flushes every couple of years, new long blocks…

 

[DaveD]

It’s all swings and roundabouts. More and more ICE cars have wet belts these days. Or other issues (I know not ‘cheap’ but look at how many 204hp T6s are needing a new engine or a lot of work after just a few years). Most of us probably agree the ‘fixes’ manufacturers have used to meet emissions targets are not great for reliability or longevity- and these will be the ‘cheap’ second hand vehicles hitting the market just before earlier EVs.
People might be able to buy a cheap ICE car but can they afford to maintain it and will it last even if they can’t?
Wet belts replacements at 40k, DPF flushes every couple of years, new long blocks…

All irrelevant if you need to do 300 miles in a day and have a £5k budget.
Of course, in the future that will be impossible, but now it's very possible and some people need to do it.
And that's before we even think about carrying a 1 tonne payload.

 

[Sasquatch]

No one "needs" to do anything.

No one popped out the womb "needing" to drive a car.

People find a car extremely useful because their life choices and lifestyle have brought that situation about, not because anyone "needs" one.

 

[DaveD]

Throughout 30 pages nobody has even tried to address or answer the issue that will be faced by the millions of people with no dedicated home parking or charging facilities.
We will care about these people when they decide that going to work is no longer a viable option for them.

 

[DaveD]

No one "needs" to do anything.

No one popped out the womb "needing" to drive a car.

People find a car extremely useful because their life choices and lifestyle have brought that situation about, not because anyone "needs" one.

I can't take you seriously now, I wonder if you've enjoyed this evening a little too much.

 

[Lubrown]

Throughout 30 pages nobody has even tried to address or answer the issue that will be faced by the millions of people with no dedicated home parking or charging facilities.
We will care about these people when they decide that going to work is no longer a viable option for them.

I’ve previously mentioned how we are inundated with charging bollards near me.
None of my local roads have drives - we all park on street, often not even near our own homes due to HIMOs where every occupant has a cheap car they drive the two miles to work every day.
Each bollard can do two cars and there are marked bays. On top of that many petrol stations either have charging points or are having them built. These are faster than the bollards but cost more. The local gym and supermarket also have charge points. There are rapid chargers on main roads that get used mainly by the DPD vans and the London style electric cabs.
Lastly there is a company going round chopping grooves in the pavement and fitting an aluminium channel with lockable cover for people who pay and think they can keep the space outside their homes.
I don’t see charging as a barrier locally. Purchase price is but that’s heading the right way all the time.

The bollards are operated by ‘Connected Kerb’. The rapid roadside chargers are someone else and the petrol stations have their own or partner with different companies.

I also mentioned previously about the trials of in-road charging so vehicles charge as they drive. There are a few in place, working.

Remember ICE cars have been around for a long time and when they came out there weren’t filling stations dotted around like there are now. It takes time for infrastructure to be built and that comes from those building it being confident there is money in it. The figures show steady increases, despite what the sceptics say, and that’s why we see more infrastructure coming on line daily.

 

[DaveD]

I’ve previously mentioned how we are inundated with charging bollards near me.
None of my local roads have drives - we all park on street, often not even near our own homes due to HIMOs where every occupant has a cheap car they drive the two miles to work every day.
Each bollard can do two cars and there are marked bays. On top of that many petrol stations either have charging points or are having them built. These are faster than the bollards but cost more. The local gym and supermarket also have charge points. There are rapid chargers on main roads that get used mainly by the DPD vans and the London style electric cabs.
Lastly there is a company going round chopping grooves in the pavement and fitting an aluminium channel with lockable cover for people who pay and think they can keep the space outside their homes.
I don’t see charging as a barrier locally. Purchase price is but that’s heading the right way all the time.

I'm not sure that that's representative of the UK.

 

[DaveD]

Massively regretting posting a "Harrys Garage" video link, thinking it was a very balanced view.
The whole thread was almost asleep.
My apologies to those who were triggered.

 

[Lubrown]

I'm not sure that that's representative of the UK.

I don’t think it is. We seem to be way ahead looking at the Connected Kerb website.
But it shows what can be achieved and very quickly too. So it’s not quite the barrier people think.

My neighbour worried about taking his EV on holiday de to distances and perceived issues with charging. He came back and said he needn’t have worried.

I always think charging points are like cyclists - there are drivers of a certain mindset that literally refuse to see them. A peloton could go past a line of charging bollards and some folk wouldn’t see any of it. They can spot people they don’t like the look of and give you their thoughts on that persons life to date no problem though.