VW cancel order after delivery

[T6 Dave's Dad]

@TeeVan I'm sorry to hear that you are at the end of the chain in what could be an absolute shitstorm.
FIRST, if I may, some advice - do not sign over the vehicle without they have a court order giving them writ of possession and you'll want the Police to attend on what could be an attempt to steal your property. By the way, you should have been party to any court action seeking possession since you are the one in possession.
The fact that the Leasing Company has paid for the vehicle in full means title has passed from VW and any dispute that VW has is a civil matter and they cannot reclaim the vehicle as they cannot cancel the sale after being paid. VW is trying to bully the Leasing Company.
The Leasing Company has been paid in full by the Broker so title has passed again.
You have purchased the vehicle from the Broker and it has been paid for in full so title has passed yet again.The vehicle has been delivered to you by the participating VW Dealer who has committed major offences by not activating the registration of the vehicle with DVLA before driving it on the public highway in fulfilling that delivery despite having been paid for the RFL and First Registration fee as per your invoice.
SECOND I would suggest that you clarify with your solicitor that you hold legal title to the vehicle and that the vehicle is not part of the civil dispute between VW and the Leasing Company as contracts have been signed and completed by paying the agreed amounts at all stages. The civil dispute is over an alleged breach of contract purchase terms and is not a criminal matter unless fraud can be proved.

 

[TeeVan]

Hi All,
Again, thanks for your thoughts, all helpful info.
The service book PDI section is blank, so I would be surprised if it has had this workshop time.
Even if this situation had not arisen, why did the dealer drive it 200miles to me & leave it in the knowledge that they had not registered it ?
I agree, major incompetence at least & highly illegal. The chances of this happening accidentally could be seen as suspicious.
The lease company has paid, but VW will not accept the payment as they want a higher price - how can they do this you ask ?
Well it seems that the lease company has had it's fleet terms & hence discount cancelled, before they made payment, as VW found out that they were selling onto a private person rather than retain the van for fleet use.
VW therefore want a higher price than the original fleet price & the difference is what VW want from the fleet company before they release the vehicle.
This is evidenced by the dealer advising of the price they will accept from me, which appears to be similar to what the fleet company are now being charged as VW no longer view them as a fleet purchaser.
I have told the dealer that they will not be collecting the van & they need to fight it out with VW & the lease company (who are refusing to pay the difference above).
Overall, my terms of sale are with the broker who is contracted to supply said vehicle, which they have not done to completion so that I can legally use the van on the road.
Another option is the tell the broker that I want a refund plus this difference, then just buy the van from the dealer, however I cannot see them returning me more that the price I paid them.
To this end I would question where title lies - if I do not have title I may not be able to refuse the dealer as long as they provide the relevant documentation & sign the relevant papers giving me protection from liability once it leaves my possession.
Further legal advice required, fortunately free through a legal policy I have.
Will keep you all updated.

 

[T6 Dave's Dad]

@TeeVan I can only reiterate the points that I made in my post above WITH THE ADDITIONAL QUESTION at what point in this chain did the Leasing Company/Fleet Company become aware of their change of status vis-a-vis VW and the requirement to pay an additional amount? It would appear that contracts had all been exchanged and payments made with the vehicle delivered BEFORE the brown stuff hit the fan. This is a civil issue between VW and the Leasing Company/Fleet Company and I make the point again that Bully-Boy tactics are being employed - remember though that "Might Is Not Right".
Do not sign over or release the vehicle for which you have paid the contracted purchase price unless the person demanding that you do so has a Writ Of Possession. Stand firm, get your legal advice that I believe will take the same stance. It is the time for you to be bloody-minded as none of the other parties to this mess are looking out for anyone other than themselves.

 

[TeeVan]

Thanks T6 Dave's Dad,
You advice is appreciated - I could not agree more - hopefully my legal advice will also agree.
Regarding the additional question - this is something that I may not find out at this stage & I may have to make a decision to go down the legal route before this information emerges - even then I suspect VW will want to keep this quiet for fear of compromising themselves. The stage at which the lease company became aware of the VW stance may change the right of VW to demand additional monies I suspect - after two weeks of wrangling, the information re the additional monies has only just emerged today.
Cheers

 

[T6 Dave's Dad]

@TeeVan Thanks for that and please keep us updated. I suspect that VW are on a sticky wicket and have no claim on you and their Dealer's failure to register the vehicle and VW's attempt to retain title through that dealer is evidence of intimidation. However, the dealer drove the vehicle 200 miles without DVLA registration and by handing it over to you committed further offences as they would have been complicit in your breaking the law by driving an unregistered, unlicensed and uninsured vehicle on the public highway.
I guess that the dealer did not use trade plates and that you saw no evidence of any evidence of them in, or on, or being removed from the vehicle.

 

[redvers]

It's been over a week without updates, anything to add yet?

 

[TeeVan]

Hi All,
I decided the reject the van as being unfit for purpose under th sale of goods act - the broker was fully in support of this, offering a full refund & collection of the van.
However, this still leaves me without a van & faced with the prospect of starting gain, I considered if it could be bought directly from the dealer, but at what cost ?
Over the last week I have been in negotiation with the broker & it seems the dealer wants £3000 more than I paid the broker - when I spoke to the broker, they had the same thought as myself, in that they & the lease company could contribute a chuck of this difference leaving me with a much smaller additional amount to pay. I will find out imminently what this figure is, then I suppose it is final decision time.
Will keep you posted over next few days, but here hoping it is all wrapped up.

 

[mhill]

What a shit storm!

Unfortunately its just another reason why brokers need to come with a health & sanity warning.

Hope you get things sorted @TeeVan

 

[TeeVan]

Hi All , well great news ! The broker & leasing company got together to agree a plan to pay the dealer the difference to the dealer. This means that I now keep the van & don't have to pay anything more than the original price, plus have it registered in my name as the first keeper from new. RESULT. I have to say the broker has been honourable throughout from the point at which the problem came to light. It seems they have also been caught out, so have acted in good faith I feel. The one thing that sticks in my gullet though, is the fact that the dealer delivered the van & knowingly left it with me unregistered & hence illegal for road use, putting me at serious financial & legal risk if there had been a motoring incident or insurance claim. I am considering if I should just put it down to experience or make an issue of it, possibly reporting this to authorities. Not that I wish to seem ungrateful to this medium called fate.

 

[TeeVan]

Hi again all, Just to say a big thank you to all the peeps on the forum for support & advice.
Glad it is all resolved. I would say to any new purchasers that there are key questions to ask before placing an order - once I have more time I will post them here. After considering all the grief we have had, I would question if the mega discount I got was really worth it , with the addage that if it looks too good to be true, then it probably is.

 

[Kingsway]

Hi All , well great news ! The broker & leasing company got together to agree a plan to pay the dealer the difference to the dealer. This means that I now keep the van & don't have to pay anything more than the original price, plus have it registered in my name as the first keeper from new. RESULT. I have to say the broker has been honourable throughout from the point at which the problem came to light. It seems they have also been caught out, so have acted in good faith I feel. The one thing that sticks in my gullet though, is the fact that the dealer delivered the van & knowingly left it with me unregistered & hence illegal for road use, putting me at serious financial & legal risk if there had been a motoring incident or insurance claim. I am considering if I should just put it down to experience or make an issue of it, possibly reporting this to authorities. Not that I wish to seem ungrateful to this medium called fate.

Did the dealer actually drive it to you or was it delivered on another vehicle?

 

[T6 Dave]

I'd stick it to the dealer, as they also threatened you with reporting to police for theft, when you had done nowt wrong! Time for payback on that one me thinks....... But that's just me, thing is your life and rep could have been ruined with that allegation, or even as you rightly say, if an accident like a cyclist or kid had occurred.. Time they learnt the consequences.....

Either way, great news, now enjoy the bus m8, and treat her to some presies, you both deserve that....

 

[Walski]

Great result, glad you're sorted. Who was the broker again?

 

[T6 Dave's Dad]

Hi All , well great news ! The broker & leasing company got together to agree a plan to pay the dealer the difference to the dealer. This means that I now keep the van & don't have to pay anything more than the original price, plus have it registered in my name as the first keeper from new. RESULT. I have to say the broker has been honourable throughout from the point at which the problem came to light. It seems they have also been caught out, so have acted in good faith I feel. The one thing that sticks in my gullet though, is the fact that the dealer delivered the van & knowingly left it with me unregistered & hence illegal for road use, putting me at serious financial & legal risk if there had been a motoring incident or insurance claim. I am considering if I should just put it down to experience or make an issue of it, possibly reporting this to authorities. Not that I wish to seem ungrateful to this medium called fate.

@TeeVan I'm so pleased for you that you've reached a satisfactory outcome and I'm pleased to hear that you believe the broker has behaved honorably throughout - credit where credit is due . However the dealer that delivered the vehicle has been totally dishonest and left you vulnerable to having a Police record and uttered threats in an attempt to intimidate you - a criminal offence - and I would go after the dealership for delivering the vehicle without any DVSA registration or road fund license despite it being paid for and not using trade plates to make the delivery. I would make a formal complaint to the Police through your solicitor and also notify VWCV and the MD VWUK of the Dealership's misconduct and threats.

 

[Kingsway]

I'd stick it to the dealer, as they also threatened you with reporting to police for theft, when you had done nowt wrong! Time for payback on that one me thinks....... But that's just me, thing is your life and rep could have been ruined with that allegation, or even as you rightly say, if an accident like a cyclist or kid had occurred.. Time they learnt the consequences.....

Either way, great news, now enjoy the bus m8, and treat her to some presies, you both deserve that....

I see where you're coming from regarding the dealer, but isn't the problem the broker selling a van that wasn't his to sale?

 

[T6 Dave]

Nope.. The dealer had to do what he was paid to do and contracted, before delivery, I.e. no plates, dvla reg and rfl..

Then deliver it fit for use on the highways.. also not try to retain title themselves and bully people..

By del to end party he had accepted payment was OK, but had failed in his duty, and driven it unreg on roads...

 

[T6 Dave's Dad]

I see where you're coming from regarding the dealer, but isn't the problem the broker selling a van that wasn't his to sale?

@Kingsway you'll need to re-read this thread as the crucial question is "Who knew what, and when?". It also turns on the refusal of VW to accept the payment from the leasing company (a VW subsidiary, or was that the company that sold to them?) and the subsequent full payments made when title should have passed. As @T6 Dave states, the dealer had either accepted the sale was legitimate and failed to register and knowingly delivered it unregistered, OR the dealer knew the sale was disputed and knowingly made delivery to avoid the vehicle being impounded whilst on his premises. WHO KNEW WHAT, AND WHEN?

 

[Kingsway]

@TeeVan I'm so pleased for you that you've reached a satisfactory outcome and I'm pleased to hear that you believe the broker has behaved honorably throughout - credit where credit is due . However the dealer that delivered the vehicle has been totally dishonest and left you vulnerable to having a Police record and uttered threats in an attempt to intimidate you - a criminal offence - and I would go after the dealership for delivering the vehicle without any DVSA registration or road fund license despite it being paid for and not using trade plates to make the delivery. I would make a formal complaint to the Police through your solicitor and also notify VWCV and the MD VWUK of the Dealership's misconduct and threats.

I think the broker and the lease company may come out of this worse than VW

 

[T6 Dave]

I think the broker and the lease company may come out of this worse than VW

Nope.. Dvla won't be happy with SMG conduct as they are given certain rights as a dealer to the manufacturer and have knowingly allowed an unregistered and untaxed vehicle and therefor uninsured vehicle to be used on the public highways, indeed as has been stated, they have been complicit in this!

 

[T6Paul]

Glad you've finally had the outcome you were hoping for.

Personally I'd be reporting the dealer to the DVLA for their lack of care in delivering and using an untaxed and unregistered vehicle on the queens highway, but that's just me...