Van electrics upgrade - Shopping list sense check?

[Salty Spuds]

Running a microwave off an inverter isn't as simple as matching the inverter to the wattage of the MW. The wattage of the microwave oven will be the output wattage, not the input. Microwaves have a high startup inrush current which can trip the inverter. I used to run a 600W microwave in my works van off a 1500W inverter & it would struggle on occasions.

 

[spenny_b]

Running a microwave off an inverter isn't as simple as matching the inverter to the wattage of the MW. The wattage of the microwave oven will be the output wattage, not the input. Microwaves have a high startup inrush current which can trip the inverter. I used to run a 600W microwave in my works van off a 1500W inverter & it would struggle on occasions.

Thanks Salty. I’ve not heard anything back from Dometic (go figure [sarcastic mode=off]), but per my post the other day, only after ordering the Renogy 1kW in a fit of excitement did I then have that palm:face moment. Interesting to know that a 1.5kW struggled with the 600W oven. Oh well, bang goes that theory….there’s no way I can house a far larger 2kW or larger unit under the drivers swivel seat, and don’t want it mounted elsewhere consuming space, for, as mentioned, the occasional use….it just doesn’t justify the trade-off.

So I guess that simplifies it a tad. I have a dual 13A socket already mounted into the kitchen trim, it appears as though each socket may be independent, so potentially I could have one connected to the Renogy and leave the other as-is connected to the EHU.

(back soon, just got to duck into a meeting)

 

[Salty Spuds]

So I guess that simplifies it a tad. I have a dual 13A socket already mounted into the kitchen trim, it appears as though each socket may be independent, so potentially I could have one connected to the Renogy and leave the other as-is connected to the EHU.

(back soon, just got to duck into a meeting)

We have similar in our van. 2 sockets on the EHU & 1 separate one on the inverter. Tbh we hardly ever use the inverter & wouldn’t miss it.

 

[spenny_b]

The Renogy inverter is fine.

If its powerful enough for your requirements.

Maybe just fit it to a dedicated socket/s

And have your standard EHU feed Via CU to different socket/s

Or as @roadtripper suggested above. Use the inverter exclusively to run the sockets and have your EHU power a decent charger to feed the lithium.

Eg: EHU - cu - 240v charger - battery - Inverter - sockets

Alongside with your dc-dc charger from the engine bay.

.....

What % of time would you be off-grid Vs on grid?

That may give you direction on what way to go.?

If mostly on EHU, then id use the inverter to feed a separate socket.

If mostly off grid I'd run everything through the inverter. And add the charger.

I’m still finding my feet with the van to be honest @Dellmassive, but I am actually using it a lot off-grid as a day van. I’m very fortunate insomuch that because I’ve got decent comms gear in there, and a job which allows me to work wherever (ie., keyboard jockey) either when on the road visiting customers or if I just fancy a day by the seaside, I can hop in the van, park up, pop the roof up and crack-on. Rarely do I need to be in a traditional orifice keeping a seat warm.

When travelling on an overnighter or away for the weekend watching the BSB, I do make use of the C&CC club sites and it doesnt really bother me to pay a few extra sheckles to have a hookup….but I’ve only spent 7/8 nights in there so far.

But, as @Salty Spuds said above, he didnt have much joy with his microwave and inverter, so I think I may have to adopt K.I.S.S, and buy myself a bigger Ridgemonkey. And f-ing well roll my sleeves up and cook something, haha.

So, I noticed that Fogstar also make a Lithium battery with an under seat form factor, like the Roamer. If your 15% affiliate discount for Roamer is still working, then this brings the price of the two closer….or do you also have an affiliate link for Fogstar? (Haha)

Any preference between Roamer and Fogstar? I‘ve not yet done a side by side checklist of the spec sheet, perhaps that’ll decide it.

I also then need to look into wiring that’s already in place, before switching out the current electronics for new Victron upgraded ones. Whether I can easily get to the wiring thats installed, I don’t know. Perhaps what might be best is to run new wires alongside, that I can fish through the access panels….I really want to avoid tearing apart the kitchen units to gain access to the side panels!

 

[T6ChrisO]

The 15% off code/link was for Black Friday I think pal

 

[spenny_b]

I did speak with All Seasons earlier this afternoon to try and find out about the PV panel - the guy there is fairly new so is finding out for me, but in the meantime does anyone recognise which brand/model it may be? It's "waffer thin", no ally frame, connections on the underside and discretely dropped into the pop-top. No branding that I can see (obvs).

 

[spenny_b]

I think I may have answered my own question, thanks to another thread on solar stuff...and it entirely makes sense if I'm correct....Photonic Universe; it's a PU PWM controller, so at the moment I'm making the assumption that a solar kit was bought for the build.

 

[digitalsteve1970]

Evening folks,

Typical me, wanting to tinker and upgrade a perfectly good campervan already....having done a decent amount of research and looking at what the latest models of kit are, I'd be very grateful if somebody (@Dellmassive ?) could give me a quick sense-check please, before I go and blow (more of) my pocket money. My buddy @Jeff G and I have chatted about it for hours and exchanged many texts, poor guy must be bored to tears!

Context:
Brand new van build by All Seasons, T6.1 SWB Highline T28, collected 3mths & 3.5k miles ago. All working perfectly well, this is absolutely not a "I'm disappointed" thread, and is something I had in the back of my mind from Day 1, it's just that All Seasons build "their build" as they know how, and that's perfectly fair.

Current setup:

• Hankook DC27 90Ah AGM leisure battery under drivers seat
• Victron Orion 12|12 DC-DC charger, also under drivers seat
• Sargent EC700 power unit + touchscreen controller/info display
• Sargent PX300 charger
• Photonic Universe PU1024B PWM 10A Solar controller
• Single solar panel on the pop-top - I don't actually know which manufacturer but it looks identical to the one sold by Van Junkies - my only thinking is that I'm sure All Seasons told me it was a 160W panel, not the 200W panel linked here. I'll clarify this week.

Other info:

• Dometic CRX50 fridge
• Dometic 700W microwave
• Webasto heater (air and water)

So, why do anything? Well, I use my van as my roaming office quite a lot of the time...you know, "digital-nomad" kind of thing. I was working at one of my favourite spots last week, flipping cold, so I had the heating on for 3-4 hours. First time I've needed to use it this much whilst not on EHU. Obviously I knew it'd run down the LB to some degree, this was a test as much as anything, but fair to say that with the fridge also on, the engine needed firing up to start getting things charged back up.

As mentioned, I always did want to install a Lithium LB and having read many of @Dellmassive threads (thank you) I'm going to need to address a few things to make this happen.

Another upgrade I want to do is install an inverter. Much as I like the portability of things like Bluetti and EcoFlow packs, I don't really want to cart around another unit. What I would like to do is be able to use the (hardwired in) microwave whilst not on EHU, as well as any power supplies for other gadgets, which can't run from USB.

I've just ordered the Renogy 1kW inverter, on special deal until the end of play today, and that also gives me their UPS function to auto-switch from Inverter to EHU, with a remote unit to switch it on.

• Planning on installing this under the drivers seat next to the LB, keeping the wires short, then running the 240v cabling discretely behind the kitchen units to the Sargent EC700, to ensure RCD's are in the circuit.
• Also planning on taking a piggyback from the back of the 2x 13A sockets out to the Renogy AC input, for that UPS function.

When I go for a Lithium LB (possibly a Roamer under-seat 230Ah but that is looking top-end ££'s), then I'll need to do a couple of things:

• Switch over the Victron Orion to change it from AGM to Lithium
• Change the PWM solar controller, as it's a PITA to change its charging profile.
  • There's a User Defined mode, but that'll be down to me to program that in, using a Chinglish app, and at the end of the day it's still only PWM controller rather than MPPT. For the cost of a Victron MPPT unit, I can't be bothered, I'll switch it out.
  • The MPPT unit I'm thinking should be ok with my current single panel is the Victron 75|15...some of this depends on what the spec of my panel turns out to be....but I'm wondering whether to go larger for the MPPT in case I ever add a second solar panel in the future?
• The Sargent PX300 charger doesn't list Lithium as a chemistry it can support....it gives a nice graph of their charging profile, but if it's not specific to Lithium, I'm not taking the risk.
  • Looking at the Victron Blue Smart IP22 12v/30A single output. Not seen any commentary so far on the 3x output version - I think that may be over-complicating things, single output should be fine, right?

Some questions....

• The Blue Smart charger - I see mention of Night mode for quiet operation. This will be mounted in place of the Sargent PX300, in my wardrobe area by the bed. The fact it has fans concerns me, I don't want to be hearing this thing in operation. Ideally, at all. Do I need to be worried about this, or do they run silently in all but the most depleted of battery situations?
• Whilst I'm at it, is it worth installing a smart shunt? Where would the "smarts" of a shunt plug in to? What does it buy me, over using the Victron apps for the Orion, MPPT and Charger?

I'm deliberately not going for an integrated DC-DC charger with MPPT.....I can't easily get to the wiring that's been built into the van and hidden behind furniture and trim panels, so swapping "A" for "B" keeps it easier.

Same for the Sargent power unit/MCB/RCD board - it's all neatly installed and integrated with a built in touch screen into the kitchen splashback panel, so that's staying.

So, inverter project first, then the battery swap with all the other stuff at some point in the next few months. Comments and suggestions welcome.

Thanks, Spencer.

Did you ever get this resolved? I have Lithium 230AH, and it's an All Seasons van, only recently got it, but it has a Sargent EC700 power unit, which I don't think will make the best use of the battery. At some point, I am looking at getting another Lithium, probably in a series or parallel configuration, and just wanting to know what you did and where you got it done. Any assistance welcome.

 

[spenny_b]

Did you ever get this resolved? I have Lithium 230AH, and it's an All Seasons van, only recently got it, but it has a Sargent EC700 power unit, which I don't think will make the best use of the battery. At some point, I am looking at getting another Lithium, probably in a series or parallel configuration, and just wanting to know what you did and where you got it done. Any assistance welcome.

@digitalsteve1970
Hi Steve,

Yes, I installed all of my gear back in March/April in good time for my 10 days over in the IoM for the TT. As you know, I have an All Seasons van as well, also using the EC700 consumer unit and control system, plus I did have the PX300 shore charger.

I replaced the under-seat wet battery with the Roamer Seatbase 230Ah, and accompanying it with Victron Orion XS DC-DC, their IP65 Shunt and an Ablemail reverse charger to keep the starter battery topped up.

Whilst I was at it, I also bought a CerboGX with touchscreen and a Smart Blue shore charger. I wasn't satisfied that the PX300 was a good match for the Roamer; Roamer were "ok" with it, but when speaking to Sargent I felt like I was getting wooly answers; for the sake of >£100 I switched that out for a Victron and rested easy that I wouldnt get a "told you so" reply should I ever need to call upon support. I gained the convenience of using Victron Connect to configure and monitor it, although it would be very useful if it talked to the CerboGX over VE.Direct, so that I could use the VRM portal to see what's going on when hooked up. I also wired it through the Sargent EC700. I did lose the warning beeps you get with the PX300, if you attempt to switch the ignition on when connected to EHU. Easily fixed with application of common sense and using a "Remove Before Flight" keyring that I hang from the steering wheel when connected! Of course, you do need to be mindful of the setting in the Sargent control panel where you can divert shore power to either leisure or starter battery (or their "Auto" mode)....mine is obviously on leisure, and mustnt be changed unless you also change the Smart Blue charge profile to one suited to a starter battery!

The solar panel was replaced by All Seasons under warranty, working with Photonic Universe who originally supplied All Seasons. I upgraded it to a larger 270W panel made by another manufacturer - wont bore you with the logistics of doing this, wasn't straight forward but we got there in the end. Married to this is a Victron MPPT. With All Seasons, they don't route solar charge through the Sargent (or certainly they didn't when I got mine), as they don't want solar disabled when the Sargent consumer unit is switched off for long term storage. That makes it easier....I built a switch box to divert solar to either the Victron MPPT or to an MC4 socket on the front panel, into which I can then plug a cable to run over to my EcoFlow Delta2, and charge that instead. I also use my Ecoflow to power my microwave, as that can deal with the c.1,850VA draw that it needs to run on 100% power. In fact that works really nicely, as I have a second switch that I can use to switch if from being powered by EHU or by Ecoflow...all safe of course and only the microwave and not the other 13A sockets, so it can't be overloaded.

As you can tell, I did all my work myself....really pleased how it all came out, all cables routed and secured nicely, properly terminated and protected. I used a Blue Sea fuse box and master kill switch, and am about to install a second Blue Sea (smaller) fuse panel under the bonnet and tidy up and improve the wiring that All Seasons did to the starter battery. I've also recently finished working on my mates van, to re-do another party's efforts, and that's come out so nicely, I'm still super-chuffed with his install. Not an All Seasons van, so stuff is laid out differently to mine but it's perhaps easier to work on, the Roamer isn't under the seat and he has a dedicated "electronics cabinet" with a lot of the gubbins in.

Just to finish, I got mine done in good time for my initial off-grid trip to the Isle of Man, and despite the really poor weather (little to no solar for many days), it worked beautifully. Never ran out of power even on one particular day where it was just a case of hunkering down inside and watching 12-14hr of laser projector TV (really power hungry). If I had more room, I wouldnt mind installing the same Multiplus 12|500|20 inverter/charger that my pal has; of course it won't power the microwave, but it would power lesser devices, and more importantly to me is that it then integrates well with the CerboGX via the VE.Bus.

Hope thats useful?
Spencer.

 

[digitalsteve1970]

Hi Spencer,

Thank you so much for your detailed response, amazing. I have to admit the one area of campervanning that I find tough to get my head around is the electronics, and you don't want to mess that up. I am going to give the 230AH lithium setup out of All Seasons a try and see if I need to upgrade, but I have a bad habit of wanting more than I will ever use. Really appreciate your help. Steve