These headlights are ####!!!

[ginkster]

I get told off for daring to say that the H7 type headlight on the T6 is no better than the H4 on dip with standard lamps fitted

Not told off but probably corrected, because the H7 headlight is far better than the H4 on dipped beam with standard bulbs. This is because the H7 dipped reflector produces a much better spread of light as it is only trying to do the one job.

you then hear it's better when you fit non standard lamps or code main beam and dip to run at the same time on the H7 which I think is probably true but a next to useless advantage 90% of the time

Coding the H7 is nothing unusual or magic, it’s just making them work as designed and how they work when fitted as standard. Having specific, focussed high beam lenses with the power of a second set of bulbs (standard ones) gives vastly improved performance when using high beam (percentage of high beam use is purely personal depending where you live).

My H7s cost £70 (including bulbs) and fitted with CE approved standard halogen bulbs not only give very good performance, but are also fully legal and cost similar to the H4 LED or HID bulbs you mention. Obviously they would be even brighter with non road-legal bulbs but some people maybe prefer to stay legal and MOT compliant.

Personally I am very happy with my H7s. They are far better than the H4s I had before on both dipped and high beam. They are not a million miles behind the performance of the OEM bi-LED swivelling headlamps on my Passat. I also prefer the look of the DRL. Each to their own, but the H7s will always outperform the H4s with like for like bulbs because of physics.

Osram Nightbreakers, 20 quid, sorted.

I’ve found these (and other similar) only make a tiny difference. Unfortunately they don’t last very long, about a year in my experience, meaning regular replacement.

 

[Stay Frosty]

Of course you could always post a video supporting this theory then it wouldn't be just another opinion?

 

[ginkster]

Of course you could always post a video supporting this theory then it wouldn't be just another opinion?

Opinion based on firsthand experience unlike your opinion of H7s. And supported by others who have also made the swap. I struggle to see what your video proves, other than your lights are brighter with more powerful (non compliant) bulbs. So would any headlights, but heyho.

 

[Stay Frosty]

Fair enough I haven't got any video of the superior H7 headlight in action but that was why I posted the challenge.

 

[dubber36]

In my humble opinion (which is no doubt wrong) only half of the reflector in a H4 headlight is dedicated to providing a dipped beam pattern. 100% of the reflector in the H7 headlight produces the dipped beam. The surface area of the H7 reflector is much larger than the effective dipped beam producing part of the H4 one. Also factor in that a H4 bulb has a shield over the filament to direct the light to certain parts of the reflector. A H7 bulb doesn't have this and emits light through 360°, therefore hitting all of the reflector.

@Stay Frosty This is a genuine question and not meant to be taken in any other way. As you have LED bulbs, they won't get hot like halogens, or draw as much current through the wiring, so would they stand coding to allow dipped to stay on with main beam therefore improving main beam output further?

 

[The Bear78]

I never felt that the H4's were dangerous but they were certainly weak.
Unlike some, I thought their performance was better (more noticeable) on dark, unlit roads. In and around town their dull orange glow tended to match the dull orange glow from streetlights so that it was difficult to tell if they were on...
I'm fairly sure that the H4 and H7 are the same wattage as standard so it really is down to the twin versus shared reflector as the actual output should be virtually identical.
FWIW I changed from upgraded H4 to upgraded H7 and do feel that there is an improvement. However, coding to keep the dip on with high beam is useful as their is a noticeable dark area directly in front of the van otherwise.

 

[Stay Frosty]

In defence of my position I've posted a video of the results of swapping out the standard H4 lamps and putting in some moderately expensive but more efficient 4000k led lamps.
If I wanted more light when it was actually possible to drive on main beam it would be easy enough to add some form of additional lighting to supplement the missing dipped beam area immediately in front of the vehicle, some use their fog lights for just such a situation, I haven't got fog lights so miss getting told off for that.
Given that some people have a pretty strong opinion of how superior the H7 headlight is when compared to the H4 then why isn't there some actual video to back this up.
I'll be honest I would still be arsey about the subject as in my case I've stuck the lamps in four years ago and they're still working well but with a bit of empirical rather than anecdotal evidence showing this clearly superior difference I'm deluding myself about I would have to wind my neck in.

 

[The Bear78]

It's not a big difference for sure.
The problem with photographic evidence is that most people use their phone on an Auto setting. All this does is adjust the exposure to a set average brightness so comparison photos/videos often look very similar even if in real life there is a more noticeable change.
@Stay Frosty I don't know how you filmed your clip but but I've seen several photos in the past comparing headlights this way.

 

[Stay Frosty]

Stuck the phone on the dashboard with a bit of bluetack it's a miracle it lasted past the first corner or the bit where I blindly drove through the hedge into that crop of winter barley...
Phone is an Oppo Reno 10x zoom from 2019.
Rich @RedUn took some pictures showing the difference between his and his Dad's H4 and H7 headlights back in a 2019 thread in fixed shots rather than my 18 minute documentary version but these were using dull old halogen lamps with a colour temperature of probably 3000 Kelvin's so no clear improvement over using a lower wattage but way more efficient led lamp for the light source.

 

[dubber36]

I've found my photos of the stock H7s prior to fitting THQs then going down the route of trial and error working out of what lamps worked best in them. Both dipped and main beam had bog standard whatever came from the factory 55w halogens.


Dipped


Main beam.

 

[The Flying Scotsman]

I never felt that the H4's were dangerous but they were certainly weak.
Unlike some, I thought their performance was better (more noticeable) on dark, unlit roads. In and around town their dull orange glow tended to match the dull orange glow from streetlights so that it was difficult to tell if they were on...
I'm fairly sure that the H4 and H7 are the same wattage as standard so it really is down to the twin versus shared reflector as the actual output should be virtually identical.
FWIW I changed from upgraded H4 to upgraded H7 and do feel that there is an improvement. However, coding to keep the dip on with high beam is useful as there is a noticeable dark area directly in front of the van otherwise.

Will Clarista do the coding so they both work or does it need to be VCDS or whatever it is?
Just fitted THQ headlights and am delighted but would love them both to stay on on full beam.

 

[ginkster]

In defence of my position I've posted a video of the results of swapping out the standard H4 lamps and putting in some moderately expensive but more efficient 4000k led lamps.
If I wanted more light when it was actually possible to drive on main beam it would be easy enough to add some form of additional lighting to supplement the missing dipped beam area immediately in front of the vehicle, some use their fog lights for just such a situation, I haven't got fog lights so miss getting told off for that.
Given that some people have a pretty strong opinion of how superior the H7 headlight is when compared to the H4 then why isn't there some actual video to back this up.
I'll be honest I would still be arsey about the subject as in my case I've stuck the lamps in four years ago and they're still working well but with a bit of empirical rather than anecdotal evidence showing this clearly superior difference I'm deluding myself about I would have to wind my neck in.

You are not comparing apples with apples. All you are doing is proving an H4 headlight is brighter with a more powerful bulb. No $h!t, of course it is! So would any headlight. And admitting to the fact the H4 has dark spots in front of the vehicle on main beam - that must be great.

For those that want to stick with legal bulbs the H7 is an effective jump in performance over H4 (dipped and main with like for like bulbs) at a fraction of the price of something like THQ lights (which incidentally are apparently not great on dipped beam with halogen bulbs because of the projector). It’s not a difficult concept as H7 has twice as many bulbs, in specific reflectors, doing one job rather than 2 jobs. I’ve seen the difference first hand and it is a very worthwhile upgrade.

Is it brighter than an H4 with powerful, non-approved LED bulbs? I’ve no idea and no interest as I want to remain legal and not risk issues at MOT time.

Is it better than the H4 when both are on standard 55w halogens? Yes, otherwise I’d have swapped back and made a profit re-selling the H7s.

Do I have video? No as it didn’t even cross my mind to do so. And it would have been pretty worthless anyhow as it would have been on different nights as it takes a couple of hours to fit the H7s.

So I have direct experience of H4 vs H7? Yes. Do you?

Will Clarista do the coding so they both work or does it need to be VCDS or whatever it is?
Just fitted THQ headlights and am delighted but would love them both to stay on on full beam.

I did it with Carista Beta for my H7s. Should be just the same for THQ. It’s not in the full Carista release - or wasn’t last time I looked a while ago hence using Beta.

 

[Stay Frosty]

Do you have experience of comparing my H4 headlights to your H7 ones and that would be a no so why get so self righteous?
To avoid any further keyboard bloodshed just imagine that my led lamp laden H4 are brighter than your H7 version and leave it at that otherwise we just sound like angry old men shouting at each other.

 

[dubber36]

I can only compare the standard H4s that were in a courtesy van to my standard H7s and can confirm that the title of this thread is 100% correct.

If anyone from VW is reading this thread they must be kicking themselves tho'. Imaging realising that they'd gone to the time and expense of commissioning a different headlamp unit to sell as an 'upgrade', when all along they could have ordered a job lot of LED bulbs from Amazon and charged £300 or whatever for them.

 

[Stay Frosty]

Sounds like they missed a trick that THQ latched onto then with their £500 headlight that only actually had to look like the £3k T6 option from VW.
Strange that the full led and satnav tech pack option on my Seat Leon from then was £1k and had been free in an earlier sales push but then adding a VW badge does seem to be a licence to print money.
Bless VW I bought £60 led lamps not the notional version indicated above and thought that was dear but the result was a worthwhile improvement in lighting output over the poor stock halogen lamp.
I think there's maybe a danger the thread is descending into the normal cult of personality that sadly kills off reasoned debate, I've said my piece and produced evidence of my results but apparently that's not what some types want to hear as it doesn't fit with their agenda.

 

[dubber36]

Just for those reading this in the future, factory LED headlights were an additional £1220 plus VAT, or £1510 plus VAT in conjunction with LED tail lights (tailgate models only) according to the May 2019 price list.

@Stay Frosty I asked you a question in post #105. Whatcha reckon?

 

[Stay Frosty]

Missed that one but I reckon in the real world the heatsink and fan on each lamp wouldn't be able to remove enough of the heat produced in converting the 80 odd watts of electric into light, especially if, as in the case of my lamps, they're enclosed within the headlight shell.
Generally heat is the killer in most things electrical eg. water cooled GPUs in PCs.
I should have commented on your H7 picture in post 110 as they look to be pretty useful and remarkably white compared to the normal orangey tinted light emitted from halogen lamps.

 

[Sackmycook]

Maybe VW have listened as the new 2024 model comes with LED head and taillights as standard.......

 

[roadtripper]

As a bit of an opinion I find the OE LED lights on the 6.1 Caravelle good but not a miracle.

The very abrupt cut off of the beam takes a lot of getting used to, you do loose the falling off reach of a halogen system and I find the brightness means my eyes don't dark adapt as much which makes the unlit areas darker. I also find the self leveling slow to react which means I'm often flashed by other drivers on country roads.

I wouldn't change them obviously, but the performance compared to the dedicated H7 main and dipped beam lights in my XC70 isn't orders of magnitude different.

 

[ginkster]

I think there's maybe a danger the thread is descending into the normal cult of personality that sadly kills off reasoned debate, I've said my piece and produced evidence of my results but apparently that's not what some types want to hear as it doesn't fit with their agenda.

Is that the ’reasoned debate’ where no one else’s thoughts count unless they have a video? And you feel the need to blame their ‘type’ or accuse them of having an ‘agenda’ to support your case? Nice try.

You may not have noticed, but I have not directly compared your setup to H7s (or anything else) as I have ‘no idea‘ (my quote from post #112) how they compare. My comparisons are from personal experience of H4 to H7 with halogen bulbs (obviously worthless in your opinion as I have no video) as some people may appreciate the firsthand feedback. As I’ve said, clearly your LED setup is brighter than halogen H4s and your video shows that. The same would be true of any headlight with a far more powerful LED bulb vs standard halogen bulb. Unfortunately, fitting LED or HID bulbs to the H4 headlight is not a legal fitment and some people may like to know that to inform their decision. To avoid that inconvenient truth would be disingenuous. What they (or you) subsequently decide is totally up to them, but at least it is an informed decision. To quote from the latest MOT regulations:

‘Existing halogen headlamp units on vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1986 must not be converted to be used with high intensity discharge (HID) or light emitting diode (LED) bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp for light source and lamp not compatible.

This does not refer to complete replacement headlamp units which may be constructed with HID or LED light sources.’

Unfortunately I’ve not got that on video but here is a link if anyone wants to look for themselves - MOT regs