Speeding in a SWB SWB T32 TDI 180 KOMBO

[iain2813]

I was caught doing 86 on a dual carriageway, however I am being prosecuted for being 26mph over the speed limit, I have used arguments that were in a very helpful earlier thread but the prosecutor still insists it is not classified as a Dual purpose vehicle, it does not help that on the V5C the van is written up as a panel van when it does have side windows and it is also indicated that it is a 6 seater when it is in fact 5.
I wrote directly to the prosecutor however they are still going ahead to prosecute because of the unladen weight indicated being 2076 (unsure if this is correct seeing the other errors on the V5C) I used the arguments in the other thread about mass in service but to no avail -

Any suggestions?

 

[Skyliner33]

I was caught doing 86 on a dual carriageway, however I am being prosecuted for being 26mph over the speed limit, I have used arguments that were in a very helpful earlier thread but the prosecutor still insists it is not classified as a Dual purpose vehicle, it does not help that on the V5C the van is written up as a panel van when it does have side windows and it is also indicated that it is a 6 seater when it is in fact 5.
I wrote directly to the prosecutor however they are still going ahead to prosecute because of the unladen weight indicated being 2076 (unsure if this is correct seeing the other errors on the V5C) I used the arguments in the other thread about mass in service but to no avail -

Any suggestions?

You are most likely over the 2040kg unladen mass, so its van speeds for you unfortunately.

 

[Alster]

The unladen weight given by vw is with driver and fuel whereas the unladen mass doesn’t include these so if it’s a swb and not 4motio you should be under the 2040 kg. Requirement for dual purpose.

 

[Skyliner33]

Its all been covered here:

Thread '4Motion - Dual Purpose Vehicle?'

16 Nov 2020

I know that this has been covered before on this forum, but I remain confused on speed restrictions that apply to 4Motion vans.

From reading previous posts, it is clear that there is agreement that if a vehicle falls into the scope of "Dual Purpose" then the legal speed that it may drive increases from 50 - 60 MPH. (On A roads where the national speed limit applies.) It has not ever been satisfactorily concluded whether or not a VW transporter (Kombi or converted 4Motion Panel Van) fall into the "Dual purpose" category.

I found the The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use)...

• Samro
• 4motion speed limit
• Replies: 26
• Forum: General VW T6 Chat

 

[iain2813]

You are most likely over the 2040kg unladen mass, so its van speeds for you unfortunately.

I double checked in fact on the V5C it is not unladen weight but Mass in service so I guess that means I should be Ok even if the prosecutor does not seem to think so
Court date 5 September so will see what happens!

 

[TeeCeeJay]

I was caught doing 86 on a dual carriageway,

Any suggestions?

Don't break the law and then try to dodge it on a technicality?

 

[iain2813]

shit happens at 7 am on an empty carriageway

 

[Sasquatch]

Don't break the law and then try to dodge it on a technicality?

How old fashioned!

 

[Nick21]

shit happens at 7 am on an empty carriageway

Stuff happens when you get caught by the Old Bill doing 86 mph on an empty dual carriageway in a van at 7 am in the morning.

 

[Sasquatch]

shit happens at 7 am on an empty carriageway

What, like being so inattentive you manage to stray 26mph over the limit?

And dont give it the "empty road" mitigation in court. That won't do you any favours. I've seen that one get their backs up nicely - the thought that people can take the wee simply because no one is about doesnt go down well.

 

[Howzat]

I was caught doing 86 on a dual carriageway, however I am being prosecuted for being 26mph over the speed limit, I have used arguments that were in a very helpful earlier thread but the prosecutor still insists it is not classified as a Dual purpose vehicle, it does not help that on the V5C the van is written up as a panel van when it does have side windows and it is also indicated that it is a 6 seater when it is in fact 5.
I wrote directly to the prosecutor however they are still going ahead to prosecute because of the unladen weight indicated being 2076 (unsure if this is correct seeing the other errors on the V5C) I used the arguments in the other thread about mass in service but to no avail -

Any suggestions?

Are you trying to argue you was only 16mph over the limit instead of 26mph? Would that make any difference?

 

[Skyliner33]

Are you trying to argue you was only 16mph over the limit instead of 26mph? Would that make any difference?

No, if charged with 26mph over the limit when actually he was only 16mph its my belief that the charges is incorrect and then can't be changed to 16mph over so there would be no prosecution.

 

[Johny]

Lesson learned, don't speed.

 

[iain2813]

Well in the end I got the three points I deserved for being 16 over the limit which I fully accept, at 26mph it would have been 6 points or a potential ban, it took some persuasion, they were arguing over the definition of mass in service and unladen weight which they said were the same - I took my van to a weighbridge to prove the point and it weighed under 2T with half a tank of fuel proving my point that Mass in service is not unladen weight so under the 2040 required for a dual purpose vehicle.
They backed down however I was still charged with being over the limit in a commercial vehicle , I think skyliner is right ,there would be no prosecution if they did not class it as a commecial vehicle but I did accept I was speeding which I did not deny.

 

[DXX]

Lesson learned, don't speed.

Or if you do go fast enough not to get stopped.

 

[Sasquatch]

Its not classed as a commercial vehicle - that is the category, defined by the DVLA. That is a distinction used for taxation and licencing, nothing more. The DVLA do not set speed limits or decide who has to comply with what limit.

The  class is the physical reality, eg, van (commercial vehicle), motor caravan, etc, and is defined by Con and Use legislation, ie, Parliament. As we all know on here, this is what determines the relevant speed limits.

BITD more than 3 decades ago we were taught all this on the traffic officers course. These days there usually is no such course (only the driver training) so the dibble seem ignorant of the distinction, as does the CPS and Magistrates. Its disgraceful how ill informed they all when when they have such a key part in prosecuting what could technically be completely innocent motorists.

 

[doncarlyon]

Fun times