Odd Power Steering Fault

[catfood12]

2018 204 DSG LWB PV. 15K miles. Van has run more or less faultlessly. For last couple of weeks there's been an only just noticeable power steering whine, as if the fluid was low. It wasn't. On last couple of motorway trips the van felt very floaty and a bit unstable. I though that it was tyre pressures. Tonight on way home, traction control and ACC fault lights come on, and steering wheel moves above 30 degrees to the left. No knocks, whines, rattles or vibration. I stopped straight away, nothing loose or dripping. A couple of restarts and lights still on.

When I say moved 30 degrees to the left, it's now offset 30 degrees. It used to be straight on dead ahead, now it's counterclockwise by about 30 degrees.

When home, I jacked the thing up, again nothing loose, my adjustable TCA bushes still tight and not moved. No cables off, hanging or loose.

VCDS went mad. Multiple Steering angle sensor Signal Implausible errors, but all in the ABS module. Steering angle itself says no errors. Steering is stiff on full right lock, smooth the rest of the way.

Where's the steering angle sensor ? In the rack ? I can only thing that the rotary or spool valve in the rack has gone faulty, or some bush in the rack has broken up, but for the steering wheel to now be 30 degrees offset is some movement. Power assistance is largely unaffected.

I have definitely not hit anything or curbed it.

Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104) Labels: 7E0-907-37x-MK100ESC.clb
Part No SW: 7E0 907 379 P HW: 7E0 907 379 M
Component: ESC H06 0133
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: 63317000000836
Coding: 557E40986562847EAA7B027AA68621D379F100
Shop #: WSC 02739 790 50316
ASAM Dataset: EV_Brake1ESCCONTIVN75XGP2 011001
ROD: EV_Brake1ESCCONTIVN75XGP2_011.rod
VCID: 3F87BA46A65CEEB79E-806A
3 Faults Found:
0289 - Steering angle sensor
B1168 29 [008] - Signal Implausible
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 206
Mileage: 24808 km
Date: 2019.11.18
Time: 20:04:13
0293 - Steering angle sensor
B1168 29 [137] - Signal Implausible
MIL ON - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 2
Reset counter: 206
Mileage: 24816 km
0301 - Steering angle sensor
B1168 29 [008] - Signal Implausible
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 206
Mileage: 24808 km
Date: 2019.11.18
Time: 20:00:37
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 04: Steering Angle (G085) Labels:* 6R0-959-654.clb
Part No SW: 6R0 959 654 HW: 6R0 959 654
Component: LENKW.SENSOR H07 0070
Serial number: 26111713470402
Coding: 01
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
ASAM Dataset: EV_LWSKLOVW25X 005001
ROD: EV_LWSKLOVW25X.rod
VCID: 7EF90742E1D627BFD5-802A
No fault code found.


See how odd. No faults in Steering angle sensor, but three in the ABS module that occurred when the fault happened. As it's stiff on full lock, something has happened with the rack.

Has anyone seen anything similar ?

The local stealer is trying to sell me a new Toerag. I'll drop it in next Monday when I get a Toerag on an extended 48 test drive...



;

Drivetrain coordinator: ACC fault status-ACC is active despite EPB deceleration: No
Drivetrain coordinator: ACC fault status-ACC active: although TSK passive: No
Drivetrain coordinator: ACC fault status-Start off or stop request at stopping speed not set: No
Drivetrain coordinator: ACC fault status-Start off and stop request sent simultaneously: No
Drivetrain coordinator: ACC fault status-ACC active: although limiter active: No
Drivetrain coordinator: ACC fault status-ACC reactivates itself after locking: No
Drivetrain coordinator: ACC fault status-ACC sends undefined signals: No
Drivetrain coordinator: ACC fault status-ACC active although main switch off: No
Drivetrain coordinator: ACC fault status-ACC is active despite driver braking: No
Drivetrain coordinator: ACC fault status-ACC is active despite ESP/ASR passive sampling: No
Drivetrain coordinator: brake function status-ABS intervention: No
Drivetrain coordinator: brake function status-ESP intervention: No
Drivetrain coordinator: brake function status-EDL intervention: No
Drivetrain coordinator: brake function status-ASR intervention: No
Drivetrain coordinator: brake function status-MSR intervention: No
Drivetrain coordinator: brake function status-Driver braking: No
Drivetrain coordinator: brake function status-HDC active: No
Drivetrain coordinator: brake function status-ESP invokes TSK braking: No
Drivetrain coordinator: brake function status-EPB active: No
Drivetrain coordinator: brake function status-ASP intervention: No
Drivetrain coordinator: brake function status-ADS intervention: No
Drivetrain coordinator: brake function status-Stopping distance reduction2 warning jolt: No
Drivetrain coordinator: brake function status-ESP sampled passive (ESP off): No
Drivetrain coordinator: brake function status-ASR sampled passive (ASR off): No
Drivetrain coordinator: brake function status-ESP recognizes vehicle at rest: No
Drivetrain coordinator: brake function status-ACC stopping distance control active: No
Drivetrain coordinator: brake fault status-Deceleration sensor not available: No
Drivetrain coordinator: brake fault status-Deceleration sensor malfunction: No
Drivetrain coordinator: brake fault status-ESP system error: No
Drivetrain coordinator: brake fault status-ESP system malfunction due to inaccurate engine torque: No
Drivetrain coordinator: brake fault status-ESP indicates TSK message consistency error: No
Drivetrain coordinator: brake fault status-TSK/ESP handshake error: No
Drivetrain coordinator: brake fault status-ESP automatic engagement malfunction: No
Drivetrain coordinator: brake fault status-Brake light implausible: No

 

[Pauly]

The angle sensor is on the slip ring touching back of steering wheel
My tracking went out a while back and if the steering wheel moves too far of centre it throws loads of errors including loss of abs/traction control/stop start etc

 

[Pete C]

The fact that your steering wheel has moved relative to the rack is a bit scary. What’s to say it won’t jump another 30 degrees the next time you drive it. Sounds like a mechanical issue in the rack ?

Pete

 

[Loz]

I’ve just had a steering rack fail and been replaced under warranty, the replacement has a modified part number.

 

[catfood12]

The angle sensor is on the slip ring touching back of steering wheel
My tracking went out a while back and if the steering wheel moves too far of centre it throws loads of errors including loss of abs/traction control/stop start etc

Hmm.. so sensor not in the rack. Even more peculiar. I've seen your comments about this in one of the alignment threads. Output from the sensor is dodgy;



The steering angle output does come and go however...

I guess if the rack has developed a fault resulting in the steering wheel being offset, then I could very well see the errors...

 

[catfood12]

The fact that your steering wheel has moved relative to the rack is a bit scary. What’s to say it won’t jump another 30 degrees the next time you drive it. Sounds like a mechanical issue in the rack ?

Pete

I reckon. It feels like that as it's binding on full right lock. I was in traffic on a straight bit of road coming up to a crossroads, went left round someone waiting in the middle of the road to turn right, then had to keep turning to straighten up again, then all of the fault lights. Very odd no noises or grinding. Not comfortable to keep driving as is. Will call the dealers in the morning.

 

[catfood12]

I’ve just had a steering rack fail and been replaced under warranty, the replacement has a modified part number.

It has to be the rack...

Thanks for all of your speedy replies chaps.

 

[hmluk]

Sound much more like one of the joins in the steering column come loose and has jumped on the splines. There are about 4 joints plus the splines to allow for the steering wheel position adjustment. What ever it is I would not want to drive it until I knew what it was.

 

[catfood12]

Sound much more like one of the joins in the steering column come loose and has jumped on the splines. There are about 4 joints plus the splines to allow for the steering wheel position adjustment. What ever it is I would not want to drive it until I knew what it was.

That's so obvious I can't believe I didn't think of it. The very peculiar thing was there was no noise at all, no clunks knock or bangs. Normally collapsing suspension makes some row.... One to check when I'm back home. I'm not using the van at the moment, as I'm concerned to drive it whilst I don't know what's caused such an obvious fault.

 

[Littleblackflash]

I bet the sensor it 100% fine.

It will show as an error if the steering wheel angle is greater than zero (maybe 5), but the lateral G-force is zero (straight line). With a 30deg angle the computer is expecting to see x-amount of lateral G-force and the stabiliy control uses this for the ABS DSC etc.
Your error codes are saying the sensor is giving an Implausible signal. So it's working, just it says 30deg when its in a straight line.

Sound like the steering column has slipped on the splines or something. I honestly wouldn't drive it until its been checked - sorry.

 

[Deleted Member]

Who's got it, Breeze?

This should give them a test, we've been lucky with our fleet and only had relatively minor issues so it'll be good to know how well they resolve this issue.

I'm also liking the new Toerag, I had a 2015 R-Line and it was sublime, lease costs have dropped like a stone and are roughly back to what I was paying back then too.

 

[catfood12]

Who's got it, Breeze?

This should give them a test, we've been lucky with our fleet and only had relatively minor issues so it'll be good to know how well they resolve this issue.

I'm also liking the new Toerag, I had a 2015 R-Line and it was sublime, lease costs have dropped like a stone and are roughly back to what I was paying back then too.

It's still at home, I've been away. Not done anything with it yet. I'll pull the underdash off and check the joints tonight.

I've had mixed results with Breeze over the years, but my one and only trip to the Commercials' side fixed my tensioner and highlighted an oil leak from the bell housing.

I have a leggy Cayenne V8 diesel that is a great car, but 150K miles. Might look to replace with a Toerag/Q5/Q7. Shame there's no V8 diesels available now.

 

[catfood12]

I bet the sensor it 100% fine.

It will show as an error if the steering wheel angle is greater than zero (maybe 5), but the lateral G-force is zero (straight line). With a 30deg angle the computer is expecting to see x-amount of lateral G-force and the stabiliy control uses this for the ABS DSC etc.
Your error codes are saying the sensor is giving an Implausible signal. So it's working, just it says 30deg when its in a straight line.

Sound like the steering column has slipped on the splines or something. I honestly wouldn't drive it until its been checked - sorry.

Coolio, thanks for the explanation, makes absolute sense. See the VCDS screenshot above, wheel angle output kept flashing between not coded/installed and a reasonable number. I have no intention of driving it until resolved.

I'll check later to see if the wheel is at the same opposite angle on full lock both sides. That will tell me if the column has slipped.

 

[Fluff34567]

The joints normally have a large master spline and are pinch bolted so would be surprised if it slipped as its a tight fit but if it wasn't tightened during build then could be possible

 

[catfood12]

I had a quick look earlier. Steering wheel is equally 1 4/5 turns centre to full lock each way. The wheel hasn't moved on the splines. No play at all when you wiggle the steering wheel left to right. It's not a column/wheel issue.

When the steering wheel is straight ahead, the NSF wheel looks about right, the OSF wheel is toeing out. The rack is behind the struts, I can't think of a failure mechanism in the rack that would shorten the track rods and make it like this. I had the van up in the air on ramps the other night, gave everything a pull and lever, and all was tight.

I had to put adjustable poly TCA bushes on when I got the van to get the alignment correct on the lowered suspension. I'm now thinking one of those must have split or something. They have an eccentric steel bush in the middle, which was tight and had not moved round. Will check further tomorrow..

 

[Deleted Member]

I thought the poly bushes lasted forever pretty much, deffo worth taking a look at it.

Did Breeze lower it? If you want a second opinion you could always ping it over to Kartechnic, labour rates are cheap there and they'd soon find the issue I reckon.

Not sure a V8 derv is very pc these days, my R-Line went like stink in S mode, the new shape is a smidge more powerful too I think.

 

[catfood12]

I thought the poly bushes lasted forever pretty much, deffo worth taking a look at it.

Did Breeze lower it? If you want a second opinion you could always ping it over to Kartechnic, labour rates are cheap there and they'd soon find the issue I reckon.

Not sure a V8 derv is very pc these days, my R-Line went like stink in S mode, the new shape is a smidge more powerful too I think.

I bought the van used locally from a fella. He had VMaxx adjustable suspension and the slightly silly 20 Rotiforms fitted at Vasworks in Wareham. I couldn't get the camber right, so fitted adjustable Powerflex bushes to dial it in, and raised the height a bit. Will look over the weekend.

I also have Powerflex poly bushes on the Porker, as the OEM ones fell apart at about 100K. They're as tight as they were when I put them in, 50K miles ago. They do squeak a bit however, they should last forever.

PC ?! Not something that worries me. 35MPG and licence compromising cruising speeds, while wafting in leather clad comfort. I'd love another one, but the V8D is no longer in any of the PL52 platforms.

 

[Littleblackflash]

If the steering wheel, joints or rack has slipped on the splines, I think VW will be forced to do a quick recall. Very unlikely.

Looking at the photos, it clearly shows one wheel towing out so you've hit something or something has broken to cause it. You need to resolve the tracking first before doing anything else. Don't just adjust the TCA, you need to remove the wheel and see what moved.

A similar thing happened to a friend. He parked in the street with the wheel on full lock and hence the wheel sticking out. Someone drove past and bumped the wheel sticking out and drove off. It's only when he played back the house CCTV did he realise why his steering was at an angle.

 

[catfood12]

Just to conclude this thread, I found out that my adjustable TCA bush had slipped round on the OS. This increased the track, and created the toe out in the picture above. When I fitted these initially, I reused the existing bolts. Now found out they're torque to yield type bolts and should be replaced. I bought replacements from TPS, and replaced the OSF side, lining the bush back up with the original marks. Cleared faults, and no problem.

Thanks for all of your suggestions throughout.

Bushes adjusted with a small C spanner at the front. Like for adjustable shocks but smaller.



I have confidently been spannering myself for many years, and probably became complacent. When first looking into this, I put the van up on ramps, which weren't particularly lined up, and were Halfords ramps from 1988 era, sized for 155 70R13's on a MkII Escort. The van's 275X20's always overhung. When trying to find out what had moved, I was vigorously rocking the wheel, so much so that combined with the poor effort of getting the thing square on the ramps made it topple off ! Luckily I didn't have legs underneath. I had to jack the van up to extract the ramp that was now jammed underneath, and the one on the other side had sprung across the driveway.

These ramps now no good. May give me an excuse to get a set of low profile Race Ramps.......