New conversion - Underslung LPG tank v Refillable 907 Gas Cylinders

[interbear]

Correct on all points

Thanks, good to know my research is yielding accurate info, not always guaranteed on t'interweb

I think the CG 907 will therefore be a reasonable option for our use case. It's safe, proven and widely available across the countries we'd travel in. With a diesel heater we will only need gas for the hob and BBQ point so I'm not convinced that investing in a LPG tank will be worth it for us.

Am I also right in assuming that I won't need to change the CG 907 regulator or anything else when travelling?

 

[t0mb0]

Thanks, good to know my research is yielding accurate info, not always guaranteed on t'interweb

I think the CG 907 will therefore be a reasonable option for our use case. It's safe, proven and widely available across the countries we'd travel in. With a diesel heater we will only need gas for the hob and BBQ point so I'm not convinced that investing in a LPG tank will be worth it for us.

Am I also right in assuming that I won't need to change the CG 907 regulator or anything else when travelling?

Yep, exactly. There are many potential hassles when road tripping, 907 cylinders aren’t generally one of them…

 

[interbear]

OK. Thanks all. I’m sticking with the 907 strategy then, perhaps pricier but seems a more flexible option for us to travel in UK and Europe without complication.

 

[Alied]

OK. Thanks all. I’m sticking with the 907 strategy then, perhaps pricier but seems a more flexible option for us to travel in UK and Europe without complication.

Would this fit in your gas locker?

Gaslow R67 2.7kg Refillable Cylinder 1 with Level Gauge

The Gaslow R67 2.7kg Refillable Cylinder 1 is especially designed to meet the French R67 Gas Tank Standards. This cylinder is the same size as the Camping Gaz 907 with regulator fitted. Gaslow have always held the view that the Gaslow Bottles are considered as "Cylinders" and therefore they are...

www.gasproducts.co.uk

 

[oldiebut goodie]

He hasn't got a van yet let alone a locker!

 

[Salty Spuds]

Would this fit in your gas locker?

Gaslow R67 2.7kg Refillable Cylinder 1 with Level Gauge

The Gaslow R67 2.7kg Refillable Cylinder 1 is especially designed to meet the French R67 Gas Tank Standards. This cylinder is the same size as the Camping Gaz 907 with regulator fitted. Gaslow have always held the view that the Gaslow Bottles are considered as "Cylinders" and therefore they are...

www.gasproducts.co.uk

£128! Wouldn’t need many £40 quid 907 refills to pay for that. No brainer imho.
Our 6kg Gaslow cost around £250 fitted & has paid for itself times over. Not just in cheap gas, but not having the stress of “will it run out?” Don’t forget, if you’re using conventional gas cylinders, you need to carry a spare for when one runs out.

 

[interbear]

He hasn't got a van yet let alone a locker!

Correct

 

[interbear]

£128! Wouldn’t need many £40 quid 907 refills to pay for that. No brainer imho.
Our 6kg Gaslow cost around £250 fitted & has paid for itself times over. Not just in cheap gas, but not having the stress of “will it run out?” Don’t forget, if you’re using conventional gas cylinders, you need to carry a spare for when one runs out.

Thanks for the suggestion I’ll go investigate. Do you refill them at an LPG / Autogas pump? I read that some providers only allow refills of fixed tanks not cylinders.

 

[Salty Spuds]

Thanks for the suggestion I’ll go investigate. Do you refill them at an LPG / Autogas pump? I read that some providers only allow refills of fixed tanks not cylinders.

The cylinder is fixed in your gas cupboard & you have an external fill point. You use the autogas/LPG pump to refill.

 

[McFlude]

I have used Camping Gaz 907 for many years. I carry two bottles and only ever change them in France as is much cheaper. They are readily available in virtually every supermarket. We generally use one cylinder for every trip. We use gas for cooking and for a three way fridge which tends to use a fair amount of gas. However I am in the process of just completing a new conversion and have opted for the Propex underslung option so that we can utilise as much interior space as possible. Previously our gas bottles were stored in a cupboard at the offside rear corner but the current need for a metal gas cupboard to get a habitation certificate eats up too much interior space. The underslung option is expensive but the plus points are; it frees up internal space; the gas is cheaper than cylinder gas; the regulator is electronic so can be switched off without the need to scrabble around to manually turn it off; it has a gauge to show how much gas you have left.

 

[DXX]

Always having diesel available to heat the van is a good thing I think. But with space at a premium (would like to store a porta potti somewhere) I’m considering whether or not I should change this for a underslung LPG tank that can cover the hob, BBQ point and heating.

Why not fit a Diesel hob such as a Wallas which heats and cooks. No gas and more space for your porta potti.

 

[interbear]

Why not fit a Diesel hob such as a Wallas which heats and cooks. No gas and more space for your porta potti.

I looked at it and quite like the idea. But the conversion company I’ve selected doesn’t supply the Wallas (I did ask) and I’m happy enough with the gas for cooking / diesel for heating strategy. The Wallas option isn’t high enough on my list of priorities to find an alternative conversion company that does offer it.

 

[DXX]

I looked at it and quite like the idea. But the conversion company I’ve selected doesn’t supply the Wallas (I did ask) and I’m happy enough with the gas for cooking / diesel for heating strategy. The Wallas option isn’t high enough on my list of priorities to find an alternative conversion company that does offer it.

I had the same response from the conversion company I used, so I offered to take my money elsewhere.
Suddenly they could fit one.

 

[interbear]

I had the same response from the conversion company I used, so I offered to take my money elsewhere.
Suddenly they could fit one.

Yes I'll ask them again if I decide Wallas is the right answer. I'm not yet convinced though. One of the reasons I've stuck with the gas hob option is that I also want an external BBQ point and intend to do as much cooking as possible outside the van rather than inside. So the combination of gas hob + BBQ point and a Webasto diesel heater seems appropriate for our likely usage.

 

[DXX]

Yes I'll ask them again if I decide Wallas is the right answer. I'm not yet convinced though. One of the reasons I've stuck with the gas hob option is that I also want an external BBQ point and intend to do as much cooking as possible outside the van rather than inside. So the combination of gas hob + BBQ point and a Webasto diesel heater seems appropriate for our likely usage.

I see your point about the BBQ.
It all depends on what time of the year (weather) and where you are stopping (campsite or stealth).
We tend to not use campsites and and travel in all weathers, burning gas creates a lot of water vapour that has to be ventilated, not ideal when trying to maintain a low profile.

 

[interbear]

So my specification is almost complete and of the very few outstanding items, this remains a dilemma, I'm really not sure what way to go.

Our usage will be weekends (so 2,3 nights) off grid and longer trips typically on a campsite with facilities and EHU. We will use the van all year round including winter, the wife is a keen stargazer so I expect trips with the telescope to dark sky areas in Wales, the Lakes and Scotland on cold, clear nights to be a regular occurrence. Hence why heating is important. We will also travel regularly in France so ease of fuel refill / exchange is important as is the ability to travel hassle free on the ferry. We don't use Eurotunnel, we are regulars on Brittany Ferries.

I am not concerned about the cost of whatever solution we initially go with. I am more concerned about real life usage and practicalities when travelling. Here are the pros and cons of each potential solution based on my web research, feel free to challenge any of them to educate me!

OPTION A - Current our conversion spec includes a CampingGaz 907 to provide gas for a dual hob and a BBQ point. For heating, a Webasto diesel heater.
Pros:
- CG 907 readily exchangeable in UK and France
- Heating always available via diesel
- Controllable heat
Cons:
- CG 907 takes up storage space in the van
- Risk of gas running out - the locker can only store 1 canister
- Risk of CG 907 butane not working on a cold night (can this be mitigated if the heating is on in the van and the canister is in a thermal sleeve?)
- Price of CG 907 exchange vs alternative solutions
- Diesel heating not the cleanest in terms of emissions and requires regular cleaning / maintenance (I've read this a few times)
- Noise of the heater

OPTION B - The alternative is a Propex underslung LPG tank to provide gas for the dual hob, BBQ point and heating.
Pros:
- Underslung tank frees up storage space in the van
- No need to exchange canisters, just refill at an LPG / Autogas station
- Longer time between refill / exchange
- Cheaper gas vs CG 907
- Better for cold nights due to propane/butane mix?
- Cleaner in terms of emissions
- Quieter than the diesel heater (mixed reports on this)
Cons:
- Risk of LPG / Autogas stations increasingly going out of service (this is a big concern)
- Risk of LPG / Autogas stations banning Campervan refill (ie Total in France)
- Some form of certification required for France
- Adaptors required for refill in France (not really a problem)
- Reliance on gas for heating rather than "always available" diesel
- More complicated for travelling on ferries (not sure if this is the case)
- Less controllable heating (on/off only)

I think I've covered all of my learning so far. So, fire in please (no pun intended) to challenge any of my assumptions. Based on my usage what do you think the right answer is. Currently I'm sticking with Option A.

 

[oldiebut goodie]

Diesel/petrol heaters need less maintenance than you might expect. A heater will easily go 5 years between service intervals especially with the low usage that they tend to get in a camper. That said I have had some with less than 100 working hours needing overhaul, upon checking the usage pattern on ones like this they have all been run at the lowest rate rather than the full rate. These heaters thrive on being run full out and stay cleaner carbon wise then.
Noise wise, the latest heaters are very quiet compared to the older models. If you are the sensitive type any noise will disturb you at night irrespective of the heating method. An underslung heater keeps any motor noise out of the interior to a certain extent - but the main noise on mine travels up the inlet duct which I cannot see an easy way of reducing. Personally I don't use overnight heating, that is what the bed and 2 dogs are for!

 

[MikeB]

We carry a spare C/gaz bottle "just in case"! Having run out on Mull a couple of years ago - - -

Replacement Calor would have been easy, but I wasn't expecting to get C/gaz easily, so we'd pretty much accepted we'd be using our camping stoves for the remaining couple of days! This said, I was astonished to find the wee shop in Fionnphort sold it, and at a respectable price too! In terms of space, our main bottle is in a gas safe, in otherwise wasted space below the tall cabinet in the van, accessed through the cupboard space. (The seat's on rails - the door's easy to open) The leisure batteries are also below the units, again using space which would otherwise be hard to use. Perhaps ask your converter about making a space for a spare bottle??

Our spare cylinder lives in the drawer under our Cali seat/bed, secured in gas bottle retainer cradles. I suppose there is some risk of a leak, but realistically I'm not concerned given it's got its carry handle / seal in place.

In terms of noise from a diesel heater, I suspect this depends on what you have, and where it is. Ours is a Webasto Airtop 2000 which is underslung. We run it all night when we're out in winter, and I can't say it's in any way "noisy" as such. Outside, you can hear a bit of a purr when it's running, and inside you are aware that something is pumping hot air into the van, but there's no noisy pump or fan noise. Other makes may not be as pleasing - - -

 

[interbear]

Perhaps ask your converter about making a space for a spare bottle??

Good idea. Although that would eat up valuable storage space as a trade-off. One of the reasons I am re-considering the underslung LPG option. But other than storage space concerns it would be good if the "gas safe vented locker" could accommodate either 2 CG907s or even 1 CG907 and 1 CG904 or C901 as a smaller emergency back up. I'll ask when I go see them.

In terms of noise from a diesel heater, I suspect this depends on what you have, and where it is. Ours is a Webasto Airtop 2000 which is underslung. We run it all night when we're out in winter, and I can't say it's in any way "noisy" as such. Outside, you can hear a bit of a purr when it's running, and inside you are aware that something is pumping hot air into the van, but there's no noisy pump or fan noise. Other makes may not be as pleasing - - -

The diesel heater specified for our conversion currently is also a Webasto and also underslung but I'm not exactly sure which model it is. Good to hear of your positive experience in terms of noise. All of these heater options are bound to make some noise so that sounds fine to me.

 

[Epic-Rob]

you could fit a deisel cooktop (which also doubles as a heater) little bit slower to boil water but does away with the need for gas tanks.