Kombi a commercial vehicle?

[gonzoromirez]

I think you have that the wrong way round. Don't you mean if it is for commercial use, then you can claim the VAT back? Also I don't believe that any vehicle like this can be claimed as used 100% for business use. That would mean that you couldn't even pop to the supermarket at the weekend in it.

You're right in that it has to be 100% business use apart from very rare occasions. So I guess the only use for a kombi in that sense would be to ferry around colleagues and goods. I'm sure very few people stick to that rule though, but you run the risk

 

[Tomzo]

You're right in that it has to be 100% business use apart from very rare occasions. So I guess the only use for a kombi in that sense would be to ferry around colleagues and goods. I'm sure very few people stick to that rule though, but you run the risk

It seems the whole Kombi thing is very tenuous when it comes to running one on a business and using it for private use as well.

 

[Tomzo]

It seems the whole Kombi thing is very tenuous when it comes to running one on a business and using it for private use as well.

I’m interested to know where the information came from I bet it was not HMRC. Would be interested to know if it’s from a certified accountant.

 

[gonzoromirez]

I’m interested to know where the information came from I bet it was not HMRC. Would be interested to know if it’s from a certified accountant.

Yes it's from a certified accountant. Best advice would be check with your own accountant and get something in writing

 

[russ_e]

It's a grey area - CocaCola got taken to court and lost.

VW Kombi v. Vauxhall Vivaro: car or van argument not settled - www.rossmartin.co.uk

In Noel Payne, Christopher Garbett, Coca-Cola European Partners Breat Britain Limited v HMRC [2019] UKUT 0090 the Upper Tribunal confirmed that for car benefits two VW Kombis were car and a Vauxhall Vivaro was a vans for the purpose of assessing employee benefits.

www.rossmartin.co.uk

This was not related to VAT though.

 

[russ_e]

I think you have that the wrong way round. Don't you mean if it is for commercial use, then you can claim the VAT back? Also I don't believe that any vehicle like this can be claimed as used 100% for business use. That would mean that you couldn't even pop to the supermarket at the weekend in it.

That's right you can't use a commercial vehicle to pop to the supermarket without paying additional Tax. HMRC state you can use the vehicle for insignificant trips i.e stopping to pick up a newspaper on the way to work. Anything else you must declare on your tax submission and pay additional NI and Tax.

For Vans the charge isn't so bad really but for a car then it's substantial unless electric. Hence the CocaCola ruling declaring that a Kombi is a car for tax purposes was quite significant for them.

This is the reason I purchased a panel van and not a Kombi. Everyone though has their own interpretation and accountants but I took the view if CocaCola lost their case there isn't much chance for me!

 

[Ricardo T]

Spoke with my accountant in the week about this. He mentioned the 1t payload but even if its a T32 panel van 4M and with options this will bring it slightly under. The dealer said if you are having factory options fitted it can obviously only be weighed on a weigh bridge on ownership of the vehicle.
My accountant stated that basically as long as you can prove and show that you are using it for your intended use for the majority of the time. i.e 95%. So whether it is a Kombi or a panel van should not matter 100%...its if you would be comfortable explaining to HMRC and convincing them that you are using it for the purpose you are intending it to be used for.

 

[Danny1964Boy]

Yes I did. Definitive answer from my account was that a T32 kombi could be put through as commercial due to the payload and ability to carry more weight. Anything less than a T32 needs to be a panel van. Others may have had different advice but this is what I've been told.

This is how I understand it from other groups. If not T32 then can’t claim VAT and subject to BIK. There are some work arounds accepted if you can demonstrate working practices that need the crew van.

 

[russ_e]

Using a Kombi for personal use is subject to BIK as a car. There are no percentages defined. Taking your kids to school, going shopping or going on holiday all are classed as personal and come with a hefty tax bill.

If Coca-Cola can't beat HMRC then a small firm has no chance.

Now whether HMRC find out or can be bothered to investigate is another question.

 

[Tomzo]

Using a Kombi for personal use is subject to BIK as a car. There are no percentages defined. Taking your kids to school, going shopping or going on holiday all are classed as personal and come with a hefty tax bill.

If Coca-Cola can't beat HMRC then a small firm has no chance.

Now whether HMRC find out or can be bothered to investigate is another question.

This is all very good advice thank you.

 

[vintage_racing]

Bringing this back to the top..
Any updates or further clarification on the subject? Is the 4Motion SWB T6.1 loading less than a FWD version? Sorry for the daft Q.
And where can I read more regarding commercial vehicle speed limits..
Thanks in advance

 

[russ_e]

Seems there was an appeal and Coca-Cola lost. Some people just buy a van and then add the Kombi seats in afterwards, of course Van speed restrictions still apply.

Payne & Ors v Revenue And Customs [2020] EWCA Civ 889 (20 July 2020)

 

[Rioja John]

My van is a 71 plate converted to a 6 seater Kombi by Salop Vans and I’ve also had a pop top fitted, so I contacted the department of transport concernining speed limits and this was their reply.

John.


Dear Mr Green



Thank you for your email below to the Department, regarding the maximum speed limits for your VW Transporter. Please note that I am unable to give legal advice, however I can point you to the relevant legislation.



I appreciate that it can be difficult to decide which category a vehicle falls into. The legislation applicable is the Road Traffic Regulation Act (RTRA) 1984 Schedule 6 which lists vehicle types which are restricted to speeds below the national speed limits. This may be useful to you: Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.



Where there are windows, seats and seat belts behind the driver’s seat our understanding is that the enforcement authorities will assume that the vehicle is primarily used for carrying passengers rather than goods. A passenger vehicle is defined in the Road Vehicles Construction and Use regulations as a vehicle, “constructed solely for the carriage of passengers and their effects”: The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986.



As you will see in the RTRA, passenger vehicles / motor caravans / dual-purpose vehicles (not drawing a trailer), with an unladen weight exceeding 3.05 tonnes or adapted to carry more than 8 passengers, would be restricted to 70mph on a motorway, 60mph on a dual carriageway and 50mph on a single carriageway. Otherwise, a passenger vehicle with e.g. no more than 8 passenger seats can travel at the same speed as a car.



Kind regards,



Helen

Helen Grech Senior Policy Advisor, Freight Regulation: Social & Safety Policy

 

[Scruffy]

That explanation seems to simplify the Kombi/dual purpose vehicle argument, excellent.

 

[Danny1964Boy]

My van is a 71 plate converted to a 6 seater Kombi by Salop Vans and I’ve also had a pop top fitted, so I contacted the department of transport concernining speed limits and this was their reply.

John.


Dear Mr Green



Thank you for your email below to the Department, regarding the maximum speed limits for your VW Transporter. Please note that I am unable to give legal advice, however I can point you to the relevant legislation.



I appreciate that it can be difficult to decide which category a vehicle falls into. The legislation applicable is the Road Traffic Regulation Act (RTRA) 1984 Schedule 6 which lists vehicle types which are restricted to speeds below the national speed limits. This may be useful to you: Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.



Where there are windows, seats and seat belts behind the driver’s seat our understanding is that the enforcement authorities will assume that the vehicle is primarily used for carrying passengers rather than goods. A passenger vehicle is defined in the Road Vehicles Construction and Use regulations as a vehicle, “constructed solely for the carriage of passengers and their effects”: The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986.



As you will see in the RTRA, passenger vehicles / motor caravans / dual-purpose vehicles (not drawing a trailer), with an unladen weight exceeding 3.05 tonnes or adapted to carry more than 8 passengers, would be restricted to 70mph on a motorway, 60mph on a dual carriageway and 50mph on a single carriageway. Otherwise, a passenger vehicle with e.g. no more than 8 passenger seats can travel at the same speed as a car.



Kind regards,



Helen

Helen Grech Senior Policy Advisor, Freight Regulation: Social & Safety Policy

This would imply that any kombi even T32 LWB mass in service 2304 kg can do passenger speeds. I thought I had to do commercial vehicle speeds because of my weight

 

[russ_e]

I think the the main issue is automatic speed cameras as a Panel van won't be registered as a Kombi with DVLA. Saying that I've never been issued a ticket in mine over the last 4 years and 30k miles.

 

[Sackmycook]

Is easy to get the V5 changed from LV to Window Van, more difficult to change to Kombi and darn near impossible for Motorcaravan.

 

[Insert Coin]

I think the the main issue is automatic speed cameras as a Panel van won't be registered as a Kombi with DVLA. Saying that I've never been issued a ticket in mine over the last 4 years and 30k miles.

Can’t remember if it’s on this thread or one of the many others, you can appeal the fine, there was a good letter that somebody composed and sent off to get his ticket revoked.

Edit - Only for a Kombi, don’t think it applied to panel vans.

 

[wayne]

So the grey area - if a Kombi is classified as N1 which is a commercial vehicle and road taxed as a van but has windows and rear seats it is also not a van .
What if it identifies as a van

 

[Greybeard]

Hi @Insert Coin and @wayne
Drive a T32 Kombi and have often tried to find the answer to this grey area.
One thread I saved was this;

Notice of Intended Prosecution/Speeding and the speed limits for a van

Andy