How does a post Covid-19 world look?

[Trouts]

Quite possibly and all the people that who have benefitied from the government covering their wages and the business that are bailed out will complain and blame it on whichever governmant is forced to increase tax rates. However it is not anyones fault, unless you're into conspiricy theories then it could be anyones fault.

Taxes pay for all we use, if we use more we will have to pay more and a global pandemic transcends policies and politics.

It's the same for pretty much every country.

and they'd be absolutely right to complain all the while Amazon, the Daily Mail etc aren't paying their taxes.
and not forgetting the government are pushing ahead with the £106b outlay (the latest estimate) on HS2 and are spending a further £27b on the roads.

i really don't understand peoples willingness to pay more tax?

 

[Dieseldonkey]

....but we do and the whole country needs a one stop shop that includes every one...we are a union

Little more time now to give a considered answer to your post @VanDamMan . I understand the arguement and your expressed passion for unity. However, have you perhaps considered the following. I might add, these are just questions and widely available facts. I'll refrain from expressing my own political view. Or at least I'll do my best to not to.

Rough population stats for the UK

• England 56 million
• Northern Ireland 1.9 million
• Scotland 5.4 million
• Wales 3.1 million

Currently, the Scottish government seems to be very wary of where the true R number is sitting at just now, in comparison to that declared by the UK Government. (Bare in mind Scotland is probably behind on the timeline graph).

Given that England's population is roughly 10 times that of Scotland:-

1) Would the UK government keep the UK as a whole, in lockdown and wait for Scotland, or Wales, or Northern Ireland for that matter, to arrive at 'Post Covid-19 world' where the R numbers are equivalent across the board?
2) Would it be viewed as fair?
3) Would England's population be content to hang fire, in lock down while one of its smaller neighbours caught up.
4) Would there be uproar and resentment?
5) Has there already been uproar and resentment?
6) Does England have a different demographic?
7) Does England have a different population density to the other UK nations.

Add into the mix, compared to the English/Welsh border, the English/Scottish border is sparsely populated by Scots, so geographically there is clear definition. There is also clear differences in legislation and the legal framework that Scotland operates under.

Then there's the Scottish psychie to deal with....



48 of the 59 Scottish seats in Westminster are held by a nationalist party. Only 6 by the party who currently hold power in the UK parliament.

Politicians have declared, this crises is not about politics. 'Politics are out the window'.
Of course there are no efforts at political one-up-manship going on here.....is there Ms Sturgeon/Mr Johnson?

Can you see where the concept of unity, may have hurdles to overcome?

 

[Murdoch]

i really don't understand peoples willingness to pay more tax?

Me neither but so many people expect everybody else to pay - especially those who do cash work.

A couple of years ago a plumber was saying to me that we should all pay more tax - to which I agreed - then later I saw him pocket a brown envelope from the customer - typical hypocrite

 

[A Bridge Too Far]

and they'd be absolutely right to complain all the while Amazon, the Daily Mail etc aren't paying their taxes.
and not forgetting the government are pushing ahead with the £106b outlay (the latest estimate) on HS2 and are spending a further £27b on the roads.

I really don't understand peoples willingness to pay more tax?

Amazon and daily mail do need to pay their tax, but that is not the same as cutting government spending.

Infrstructure projects create thousands of jobs for people paying tax, keep construction companies paying tax and create many more jobs in the supply chain, think building supplies, hire companies, machine manufacturers. If they cancel HS2, who's going to pay the redundancy payments and jobseekers for all the people who lose thier jobs?

And the roads need the investment, most were built over the life of a normal road ago and need replacing, but we cannot affords that so they are patched up constantly and like HS2, it supports work by organisations and workers all paying tax.

 

[dubber36]

indeed. but another take on this, i was taking to a friend of mine who works as a sole trader and earns upwards of 50k, which they rightfully declared on their returns to the tax man. and they are not entitled to a penny.
why is that so and how is that fair?

The line has to be drawn somewhere. With an income of £50k+ profit, I think it would be fair to say that he would have enough put by to get by over this period. For those earning less, it's a benefit, or dole if you like. You wouldn't be able to claim the dole if you had an income above a certain threshold.

 

[VanDamMan]

Little more time now to give a considered answer to your post @VanDamMan . I understand the arguement and your expressed passion for unity. However, have you perhaps considered the following. I might add, these are just questions and widely available facts. I'll refrain from expressing my own political view. Or at least I'll do my best to not to.

Rough population stats for the UK

• England 56 million
• Northern Ireland 1.9 million
• Scotland 5.4 million
• Wales 3.1 million

Currently, the Scottish government seems to be very wary of where the true R number is sitting at just now, in comparison to that declared by the UK Government. (Bare in mind Scotland is probably behind on the timeline graph).

Given that England's population is roughly 10 times that of Scotland:-

1) Would the UK government keep the UK as a whole, in lockdown and wait for Scotland, or Wales, or Northern Ireland for that matter, to arrive at 'Post Covid-19 world' where the R numbers are equivalent across the board?
2) Would it be viewed as fair?
3) Would England's population be content to hang fire, in lock down while one of its smaller neighbours caught up.
4) Would there be uproar and resentment?
5) Has there already been uproar and resentment?
6) Does England have a different demographic?
7) Does England have a different population density to the other UK nations.

Add into the mix, compared to the English/Welsh border, the English/Scottish border is sparsely populated by Scots, so geographically there is clear definition. There is also clear differences in legislation and the legal framework that Scotland operates under.

Then there's the Scottish psychie to deal with....

View attachment 69417

48 of the 59 Scottish seats in Westminster are held by a nationalist party. Only 6 by the party who currently hold power in the UK parliament.

Politicians have declared, this crises is not about politics. 'Politics are out the window'.
Of course there are no efforts at political one-up-manship going on here.....is there Ms Sturgeon/Mr Johnson?

Can you see where the concept of unity, may have hurdles to overcome?

Having put aside that there are I agree many hurdles to overcome and how good that many a mathematician loves to use numbers to explain how statistics work.....London,Birmingham,Manchester have all had high death rates and other parts of England very low rates so it would be impossible to compare like for like and treat different areas separately..so the law of averages comes into play ,being that The infection rate is falling, measures are being introduced to reduce restrictions...but at any time in any area a spike could happen in what ever country you live ...the only real resentment is caused by people in power offering different things to different people to win favour and then the realisation that someone’s got to pay for it
Its a crazy world we live.......but to many cooks springs to mind....
I’m not really a passionate unionist...more someone that sees a common goal that we pull together in a crisis

 

[Trouts]

The line has to be drawn somewhere. With an income of £50k+ profit, I think it would be fair to say that he would have enough put by to get by over this period. For those earning less, it's a benefit, or dole if you like. You wouldn't be able to claim the dole if you had an income above a certain threshold.

sorry, i should have been clearer with that, that's not their profit, just what their income (and bear in mind they've already paid tax on that)
- as i understand it the application asked for their earnings and NI number and that was the outcome. nothing.
so, having been a good, tax paying law abiding member of society they're now getting no help.

and i understand the need to draw a line somewhere, and i totally agree they should have savings (as should everyone) however if had they not declared their correct earning's (as many of their colleagues\peers have done) they would be getting financial help now.

anyway...

 

[czmate1999]

After watching the news decided to post the following. Not meant to be patronising and apologies if it comes across that way... Just increasingly fed-up with the TV...

Why the easing of restrictions? Answer is really simple and isn’t ambiguous. This is an experiment to see what impacts the R number. If things go well then a further easing will happen. If not then restrictions will remain as is or be tightened again.

Rules -

1. You can leave your house and travel but must return to it on the same day. Do not stay anywhere other than your home overnight.

2. You can meet with one other person from another household at any one time but not more. You can meet different people at different times. You must maintain social distancing.

3. If you are unable to work from home but have a job in one of the specified sectors you can go to work - providing that
A. you or anyone in your household do not have COVID-19 symptoms.
B. you do not have to care for children / others.
C. you feel your employer has made it safe for you and that social distancing can be maintained.

4. When away from your home, make every effort to maintain social distancing. Carry high alcohol content anti bac gel - use regularly. Avoid touching your face. If entering an enclosed space, wear a covering that covers you mouth and nose. When returning home, wash your hands for 20 secs with soap, wipe down any door handles other areas you may have touched prior to washing your hands.

‘Stay Alert’ means: be careful, this isn’t over despite an easing of restrictions. Ultimately use your common sense - take sensible precautions to protect you, your love ones and the NHS. If in any doubt ask yourself ‘does what I’m doing put me at risk?’ If yes, don’t do it. Be proactive - find out more information and engage, remotely, with anyone you might need to in order to find a resolution.

Stay Alert - Control The Virus - Save Lives.

Check Our plan to rebuild: The UK Government’s COVID-19 recovery strategy for up-to-date information.

 

[Tourershine]

This is meant with no offence to anyone of the furlough scheme at the moment, so please take it as pure curiosity if you are in this situation, but how on earth do the government expect to eventually get this country back to work if they are paying people to stay at home? I just heard on Radio 2 that Richi Sunak has just extended the scheme until October, albeit with a few caveats, and that's fantastic if you are in an awkward position, but surely by extending this for another 4 months just doesn't send out the right message, or am I misunderstanding something that i'm not overly familiar with?
I was chatting to a customer the other day that ran a business. He employed several people, that were currently furloughed, and he said it's win win for him. He gets to keep his staff loyal, without actually having to pay for them. Also, this same chap had been given a £20k grant, which he freely admitted he didn't need, and only applied for it to see what happened, and also admitted he was going to spend it on a new kitchen, which personally I thought was shameful to boast about. It doesn't seem to encourage anyone to actually want to get back to work to me, which will surely prolong the whole financial situation, putting the UK in more debt than is nessasary, that the next generation will be footing the bill for.
On a similar note, the public were more than happy to stand shoulder to shoulder to pile into B&Q, or sit in a park laughing and joking together, but ask them to return to work and all of a sudden they are screaming health and safety regulations, and how it's way too dangerous to even consider returning to work at the moment.

Nothing seems to make any sense anymore.

 

[Loz]

The company my 2 work for are keeping them on furlough because business is quite and it helps their cash flow. They both want to go back and can do safely but the senior managers know they are on a good thing..

 

[Tourershine]

The company my 2 work for are keeping them on furlough because business is quite and it helps their cash flow. They both want to go back and can do safely but the senior managers know they are on a good thing..

Exactly as my customer explained it about his business.

Maybe it's because i'm not in a situation where i'm being bailed out by the government (not that there is anything wrong with that in the right situations) but semi-intelligent people that are clever enough to get into a management positions or lucky enough to run businesses, must realise this isn't free money ultimately, unless i'm just totally naive.

 

[Ghost]

The company my 2 work for are keeping them on furlough because business is quite and it helps their cash flow. They both want to go back and can do safely but the senior managers know they are on a good thing..

I hear the same thing where I live, some employers are rubbing their hands, yet sadly some hard working people will lose everything.

 

[VanDamMan]

Furlough, grants, etc as wonderful as they are will be a cost to every Tax payer in the future and I don’t think that the big businesses that might have shirked there tax liabilities will now get away with it....perhaps the IMF might allow countries to wipe off debts relating to Covid 19 ( stranger things have happened) ...but the big worry is that austerity will return as the rule book has been ripped up ..They will find new ways to balance the books ...No Money is Free Money.

 

[Trouts]

Furlough, grants, etc as wonderful as they are will be a cost to every Tax payer in the future and I don’t think that the big businesses that might have shirked there tax liabilities will now get away with it....perhaps the IMF might allow countries to wipe off debts relating to Covid 19 ( stranger things have happened) ...but the big worry is that austerity will return as the rule book has been ripped up ..They will find new ways to balance the books ...No Money is Free Money.

unless it's quantative easing!

but back to @Tourershine 's point, yeah i must say i was surprised by the announcement, i fully expected them to be either stopping it or cutting it dramatically enough to pretty much make it impracticable for people to say at home unless they really had to.
that said, perhaps they realised that and didn't want everyone rushing back out to work at the same time and this is their way of trying to control a part of that??

as for the customer, well they'll always be people that take advantage...

FTSE 100 firms using furlough scheme pay CEOs average of £3.6m

Companies claiming Covid-19 support will face pressure to cut executive salaries, a thinktank has said.

www.theguardian.com

 

[Vall]

unless it's quantative easing!

but back to @Tourershine 's point, yeah i must say i was surprised by the announcement, i fully expected them to be either stopping it or cutting it dramatically enough to pretty much make it impracticable for people to say at home unless they really had to.
that said, perhaps they realised that and didn't want everyone rushing back out to work at the same time and this is their way of trying to control a part of that??

but, unfortunately, they'll always be people that take advantage...

FTSE 100 firms using furlough scheme pay CEOs average of £3.6m

Companies claiming Covid-19 support will face pressure to cut executive salaries, a thinktank has said.

www.theguardian.com

I think they’re just trying to buy a bit of time and hope the economy can pick up a bit and save a few jobs. All it’s really doing is delaying the inevitable, there’s going to be huge numbers of redundancies by the end of the year.

 

[VanDamMan]

On a lighter note......gloves optional...

 

[Yzfr1]

On a lighter note......gloves optional...

View attachment 69540

Oh my.........if it was a Ford one I'd wear it.....lol

 

[Dieseldonkey]

On a lighter note......gloves optional...

View attachment 69540

Ah....Volkswagens final solution to dieselgate? Ingenious. And currently....all the rage.

 

[Dieseldonkey]

Hey @Dellmassive , @VanDamMan . You guys missing a trick here....
This....

Plus this...

Can you see where I'm going with this?

 

[Dellmassive]

Hey @Dellmassive , @VanDamMan . You guys missing a trick here....
This....View attachment 69542

Plus this...View attachment 69543

Can you see where I'm going with this?

What's the first pic?..... a face mask????