Fault codes p13d6 and 24936

[Paynewright]

Hi,

pulled these out with Carista following the orange engine light coming on. Its a 2.0tdi 102.

I had the 24936 code yesterday and cleared it. Its back again today. Google doesnt find any info.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Ian

 

[Paynewright]

Reappearing after being cleared so fault not going away.

 

[T6ARF]

@Dellmassive @Robert @mmi need your expertise here please? If I’ve missed any expert’s please jump in!

 

[mmi]

Reappearing after being cleared so fault not going away.

Does Carista show both P13D6 and the mysterious 24936, or just one of them?
P13D6 = Glow plug 3 pressure sensor.

 

[Paynewright]

Does Carista show both P13D6 and the mysterious 24936, or just one of them?
P13D6 = Glow plug 3 pressure sensor.

Always both together.

I found today that I can clear them, ran the van for 50ish miles without the light coming on, plug in Carista and the fault codes are back (but no dash light)!

Ian

 

[mmi]

Always both together.

I found today that I can clear them, ran the van for 50ish miles without the light coming on, plug in Carista and the fault codes are back (but no dash light)!

Ian

Thanks. I believe we can conclude that those two are actually just one - P13D6. Besides a general (common on all brands, Pxxxx) fault code VW identifies all of them with their own identifier, and Carista can't associate them. Unfortunately it seems that Carista quite often misinterprets those manufacturer specific codes - the fact that Google doesn't find them is a strong indication of that.

Anyways, before a fault manifests itself as dash light, it can be in pending state quite some time. And, if the fault doesn't reoccur for some time it goes out of reach of many OBD tools, including Carista.

With a proper scan tool there would be a lot more information available... e.g. a VCDS log below (adopted from Fault Code P0016 EML On)

8809 - Cylinder 3 Internal Pressure Sensor
          P13D6 00 [237] - Implausible Signal
          MIL ON - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 3
                    Mileage: 211499 km
                    Date: 2020.03.16
                    Time: 07:28:06

                    Engine speed: 1527.50 /min
                    Normed load value: 0.0 %
                    Vehicle speed: 80 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 90 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 53 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 1010 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 14.780 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
                    Cylinder head: pressure sensor 3 bank 1: raw value: 35.969 bar
                    Cyl. head: press. sens. 3 bank 1: max press. in decelerat.mode: 0.92 °
                    Cylinder_pressure_offset_cylinder_3: -1.156 bar
                    Cyl. head: press. sen 3 bank 1: error stat. combust. rm. press.-Bits 0-7: 32
                    Cylinder head: press. sensor 3 bank 1: grp. run time: 12.9 µs

 

[Paynewright]

I’m going to get a VCDS I think so I can explore further!

 

[Paynewright]

So, doing a bit of googling the code relates to the pressure sensing glow plug and implausible reading. It suggests three things false reading (just reset it), faulty glow plug or a wiring fault.

I was wondering what is the pressure it is sensing and if this is in fact the cause, what is the underlying fault?

 

[Howzat]

Just had this glow plug replaced. Eventually threw up the engine light on my T6 after leaving the code uncleared for a week or so and was running a bit rough as a result. Symptoms included the occasional misfire, like it was starved of fuel for a sec, and it seemed to affect how the revs behaved between gear changes, especially in 3rd gear up, so I think the sensor does more than just glow plug related stuff.
If you have warranty it's covered and has a book time of 1.2 hours to replace although my mechanic did it in less. The glow plug is bloody expensive though at £120!

 

[mmi]

So, doing a bit of googling the code relates to the pressure sensing glow plug and implausible reading. It suggests three things false reading (just reset it), faulty glow plug or a wiring fault.

I was wondering what is the pressure it is sensing and if this is in fact the cause, what is the underlying fault?

It's pressure sensor which is part of cylinder 3 glow plug. So the glow plug itself is working ok.

The pressure sensor just monitors working pressure in cylinder 3 which ECU presumably uses to finetune charge pressure, injection timing, amount of injected fuel.

Most likely it's just the sensor itself which reports not meaningful values - dropped values, single "random" or discontinous values. Certainly could be an intermittent wiring fault but basically wiring fault causes the ECU to report either short to ground or short to plus - with a different fault code.
E.g.

P13D4 - Cylinder 3 Internal Pressure Sensor - Short to Plus​

P13D5 - Cylinder 3 Internal Pressure Sensor - Short to ground​

P13E2 - Cylinder 3 Internal Pressure Sensor - Malfunction​

 

[Paynewright]

Bit of an update.

I double dosed the last fill of (supermarket) diesel with millers additive and drove home from Norfolk. Reset/cleared the fault and it has not come back. I've checked with Carista this morning and no faults 'pending'. Previously when I reset the fault it reappeared as pending pretty much straight away. (where is the fingers crossed emoji?)

 

[Paynewright]

So, after a few weeks of running fine the warning light is back on. I've recently purchased VCDS so big boy pants on and plug it in!

Ran the fault checks and back with the same two fault codes and the VCDS output is shown below. I guess the question is what is the usual cylinder pressure if 36.3bar is outside of parameters?


In other news I successfully coded the H7s so low beam stays on with main! Just the trailer module to code next!!

Friday,24,September,2021,08:37:31:36878
VCDS Version: Release 21.9.0 (x64) Running on Windows 10 x64
www.Ross-Tech.com

Address 01: Engine Labels: 04L-907-309-V2.clb
Control Module Part Number: 04L 906 056 KB HW: 04L 907 445
Component and/or Version: R4 2.0l TDI H02 5950
Software Coding: 0011401C430401090000
Work Shop Code: WSC 02737 790 50316
ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM20TDI03004L906056KB 004014 (VN75)
ROD: EV_ECM20TDI03004L906056JT.rod
VCID: 77ABE266EF44445396B-8022
1 Fault Found:

24936 - Cylinder 3 Internal Pressure Sensor
P13D6 00 [236] - Implausible Signal
MIL ON - Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 5
Mileage: 28627 km
Date: 2056.01.25
Time: 14:38:56

Engine RPM: 2339.25 /min
Normed load value: 0.0 %
Vehicle speed: 30 km/h
Coolant temperature: 91 °C
Intake air temperature: 22 °C
Ambient air pressure: 1000 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.531 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Cylinder head: pressure sensor 3 bank 1: raw value: 36.3 bar


Readiness: N/A

 

[Howzat]

It's the no3 glow plug sensor giving a false reading. Swap it out and your problems should go away.

 

[mmi]

what is the usual cylinder pressure if 36.3bar is outside of parameters?

Depending what the engine is doing - between engine braking and full blast - from 21 up to 160 bars have been observed. Typically on idle 40 bars.

Implausible signal - indicates that data received from the sensor is out of normal working envelope, either because of (1) the sensor itself being faulty or (2) a fault somewhere else is causing the engine to run out of the spec.

P13D6 00 [236] - Implausible Signal MIL ON - Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear

So an engine light is ON - is it flashing coil or the emission light (engine symbol)?

I've recently purchased VCDS so big boy pants on and plug it in!

Congrats!


Well, if you would like to take full advantage of VCDS capabilities you could do the following. I'm more than happy to look into the data.

1. Engine's blockmap data (engine idling, preferably "hot")

2. Recording of selected engine parameters

​

Ignition ON, Stop/Start off, put the Seat belt on (needed for Stop/Start to work)​

​

Check fault memory​

VCDS - Select Control Module - Engine - Fault Codes - Save​

​

Return back to Engine main menu, select Adv. Meas. Values​

​

Tick the following​

IDE00021 Engine RPM​

IDE00190 Charge air pressure: specified value​

IDE00347 Air mass: actual value​

IDE00351 Main injection: start of activation​

IDE00472 Mean injection quantity​

IDE00589 Fuel pressure​

IDE00594 Absolute intake pressure​

IDE04090 Exhaust temperature bank 1​

IDE04685 Setpoint generation interior torque​

IDE07738 Charge air cooler inlet: pressure sensor 1 bank 1: raw value​

IDE07742 Cylinder head: pressure sensor 3 bank 1: raw value​

IDE07757 Exhaust recirc.valve 1 bank 1: posit.feedback - Actual value​

​

Tick "Group UDS requests" - by 7 (verify all values are alive).​

Click Log - Start​

​

Start the engine, let it warm a bit (unless warm already) on idle, minimum for 30 seconds​

​

Floor it (quickly) to the max (2500rpm) for 10 seconds​

Let it idle for 10 seconds​

​

Floor it (quickly) to the max (2500rpm) for 10 seconds​

Let it idle for 10 seconds​

​

Shut it down by Stop/Start (if works), otherwise turn ignition off and immediately (but let the engine shut off) back on so VCDS can keep on logging.​

​

Stop VCDS logging etc.​

​

Check the fault memory - under Engine - Fault Codes - Save​

​

The logfiles will be in folder ...VCDS\Logs​

​

Please post the logfiles.​

3. Recording of selected engine parameters while driving (perhaps later)

​

Basically just a repeat of the "case 2" above but driving around. At some point apply full throttle preferably going uphill - starting at 1500 rpm finish at 2000 rpm. Also a long (at least 10 seconds) engine braking would be nice to capture.​

---

EDIT: attached preformatted file for the VCDS Adv.Meas.Values (case 2) - Please remove the .PDF -file extension so the file will become cylpressure.u01

- click on top/left corner to load the selection... (cylpressure.u01)

​

 

[Paynewright]

So, I dug out the extended warranty paperwork today and the light has gone off Its playing with me!

 

[Howzat]

There's a good chance that the error code is still showing. My extended insurance is 3rd party so I just told my mechanic the code and what it relates to then he contacted my warranty guys and they gave authorisation to go ahead and swap glow plug 3. The error code hasn't come back since it was swapped about 5 weeks ago.

 

[mmi]

So, after a few weeks of running fine the warning light is back on. I've recently purchased VCDS so big boy pants on and plug it in!

Ran the fault checks and back with the same two fault codes and the VCDS output is shown below. I guess the question is what is the usual cylinder pressure if 36.3bar is outside of parameters?


In other news I successfully coded the H7s so low beam stays on with main! Just the trailer module to code next!!

Friday,24,September,2021,08:37:31:36878
VCDS Version: Release 21.9.0 (x64) Running on Windows 10 x64
www.Ross-Tech.com

Address 01: Engine Labels: 04L-907-309-V2.clb
Control Module Part Number: 04L 906 056 KB HW: 04L 907 445
Component and/or Version: R4 2.0l TDI H02 5950
Software Coding: 0011401C430401090000
Work Shop Code: WSC 02737 790 50316
ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM20TDI03004L906056KB 004014 (VN75)
ROD: EV_ECM20TDI03004L906056JT.rod
VCID: 77ABE266EF44445396B-8022
1 Fault Found:

24936 - Cylinder 3 Internal Pressure Sensor
P13D6 00 [236] - Implausible Signal
MIL ON - Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 5
Mileage: 28627 km
Date: 2056.01.25
Time: 14:38:56

Engine RPM: 2339.25 /min
Normed load value: 0.0 %
Vehicle speed: 30 km/h
Coolant temperature: 91 °C
Intake air temperature: 22 °C
Ambient air pressure: 1000 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.531 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Cylinder head: pressure sensor 3 bank 1: raw value: 36.3 bar


Readiness: N/A

Could you please share the first 11 digits of the VIN. This would disclose vehicle class and exact model year.
I have found quite intriguing that there are (at least this far) 6 different software versions these EU6 102PS engines are running.

 

[Paynewright]

WV2ZZZ7HZHH

The van is a unusual spec Startline 9 seat window van with AC, parking and rear heater. WV2 classification so M1 vehicle category. Speaking with @Pauly he didn’t think it was a spec Joe public could order and it was probably ordered by one of the approved conversion companies. It only had 600 miles when I bought it at 16 months old and had been in the dealer network from new - all a bit strange!

Ian

 

[T6ARF]

Could you please share the first 11 digits of the VIN. This would disclose vehicle class and exact model year.
I have found quite intriguing that there are (at least this far) 6 different software versions these EU6 102PS engines are running.

@mmi Could I add my van to this intriguing mix (if it’s of interest to you)…. mine is a EU6 102PS and for the first time (in my ownership) yesterday morning I had the coil light flashing on start up?

WV1ZZZ7HZHH

 

[mmi]

WV2ZZZ7HZHH

The van is a unusual spec Startline 9 seat window van with AC, parking and rear heater. WV2 classification so M1 vehicle category. Speaking with @Pauly he didn’t think it was a spec Joe public could order and it was probably ordered by one of the approved conversion companies. It only had 600 miles when I bought it at 16 months old and had been in the dealer network from new - all a bit strange!

Ian

Thanks, indeed a special - and also seems to prove I'm on the right track tracing engine software revisions.

Looks like that at some point the engine has got an update. Perhaps you could confirm this....please...
Almighty VCDS can reveal that, too.
Under engine - Advanced ID. Copy the report and post here.