Problems in paradise

A

alexhammond

New Member
Hi Everyone
First post, first camper, newbie all round, but wanted some opinions if possible...really appreciate any thoughts.

Story so far.
- New conversion from pro converter (unnamed for now) June '21
- Coil and engine light popped up 50 miles on the drive home from purchasing it (amber)
- Local garage fixed it, (Replace exhaust gas temperature sensor & Replace EGR cooler, fill in new coolant) original dealer paid for that bill.

- Follow-up fault with START STOP ERROR on dash, again fixed by the local dealer (Check vehicle for engine fault regarding body control module communication, check wiring from battery monitor to alternator as per garage request. Remove loom, trace fault around oil cooler area, repair loom and refit, clear faults, no engine faults on test. Original dealer paid again.

- 1000 miles later, coil and engine fault pop on again. (amber)
- Local garage has advised the error is fuel injectors and fuel rail need replacing at £2500+VAT

Van is 2017 Startline, with 84k miles. But done less than 2000 miles since i've had it.
My Warrantywise cover say it isn't covered and so i'm looking at a big bill less than 3 months after spending a lot on the van in the first place. Pretty unhappy about that.
Original garage said that after 30 days it wasn't their problem and all 'responsibility fell to Warrantywise or as the case may be, me.

Is this just bad luck? or associated problems?
Are the original dealer right in saying it isn't their problem?

All and any thoughts really welcome.

Thanks
Alex
 
I’d be speaking with the selling dealer. Sounds like it’s not ‘fit for purpose’.
 
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DaveD said:
It's sounding like a "Warrantywise warranty" isn't fit for purpose either.
I suppose there's something in the small print excluding "anything that goes wrong".
Click to expand...
You're telling me! Pretty surprised that that GOLD policy doesn't cover this. Apparently, it's wear&tear, although isn't that everything that is likely to go wrong in an engine?
 
Some good advice, though ultimately the Consumer Rights Act 2015 applies - so selling dealer is liable for the first 6 months (noting you purchased June 21).

Explanation in 'plain english' :-
www.autotrader.co.uk

Consumer Rights Act 2015 for used and new cars | AutoTrader

The Consumer Rights Act provides second-hand and new car buyers with a wider range of rights covering the sale of goods and services. Here we explained which consumer rights could cover you when buying a car, or when you require a refund, car repairs or the replacement of faulty goods.
www.autotrader.co.uk www.autotrader.co.uk

Primary legislation (CRA 2015):-

Consumer Rights Act 2015

www.legislation.gov.uk www.legislation.gov.uk

Sounds like the converter has done the right thing so far, so definitely worth talking to them again and only mentioning the CRA 2015 if they get difficult (along with your right to reject for full refund).

Hope this helps & good luck getting it sorted.

EDIT: Apologies, had not processed they were hiding behind the 30 days nonsense. In which case, CRA 2015 applies - they are liable for 6 months.
 
Name and shame the selling dealer. Be good to know and maybe help others who are looking to buy.
 
mlh677 said:
Some good advice, though ultimately the Consumer Rights Act 2015 applies - so selling dealer is liable for the first 6 months (noting you purchased June 21).

Explanation in 'plain english' :-
www.autotrader.co.uk

Consumer Rights Act 2015 for used and new cars | AutoTrader

The Consumer Rights Act provides second-hand and new car buyers with a wider range of rights covering the sale of goods and services. Here we explained which consumer rights could cover you when buying a car, or when you require a refund, car repairs or the replacement of faulty goods.
www.autotrader.co.uk www.autotrader.co.uk

Primary legislation (CRA 2015):-

Consumer Rights Act 2015

www.legislation.gov.uk www.legislation.gov.uk

Sounds like the converter has done the right thing so far, so definitely worth talking to them again and only mentioning the CRA 2015 if they get difficult (along with your right to reject for full refund).

Hope this helps & good luck getting it sorted. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
Hi - good info. Thanks.
My instinct is to throw in the CRA 2015 as a last resort. I feel a bit knocked by the whole saga so far, but will see what goes down this week.
Thanks and i'll report back.
 
alexhammond said:
Hi - good info. Thanks.
My instinct is to throw in the CRA 2015 as a last resort. I feel a bit knocked by the whole saga so far, but will see what goes down this week.
Thanks and i'll report back.
Click to expand...
Feel free to PM me, and we can chat. Unfortunately (fortunately?) I do have form in rejecting vehicles under the old Sale of Goods Act, so can hopefully share experiences if needed. :thumbsup:
 
mlh677 said:
Feel free to PM me, and we can chat. Unfortunately (fortunately?) I do have form in rejecting vehicles under the old Sale of Goods Act, so can hopefully share experiences if needed. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
I'm in a very similar boat so would also appreciate some guidance here - dropped you a PM.
 
alexhammond said:
Hi Everyone
First post, first camper, newbie all round, but wanted some opinions if possible...really appreciate any thoughts.

Story so far.
- New conversion from pro converter (unnamed for now) June '21
- Coil and engine light popped up 50 miles on the drive home from purchasing it (amber)
- Local garage fixed it, (Replace exhaust gas temperature sensor & Replace EGR cooler, fill in new coolant) original dealer paid for that bill.

- Follow-up fault with START STOP ERROR on dash, again fixed by the local dealer (Check vehicle for engine fault regarding body control module communication, check wiring from battery monitor to alternator as per garage request. Remove loom, trace fault around oil cooler area, repair loom and refit, clear faults, no engine faults on test. Original dealer paid again.

- 1000 miles later, coil and engine fault pop on again. (amber)
- Local garage has advised the error is fuel injectors and fuel rail need replacing at £2500+VAT

Van is 2017 Startline, with 84k miles. But done less than 2000 miles since i've had it.
My Warrantywise cover say it isn't covered and so i'm looking at a big bill less than 3 months after spending a lot on the van in the first place. Pretty unhappy about that.
Original garage said that after 30 days it wasn't their problem and all 'responsibility fell to Warrantywise or as the case may be, me.

Is this just bad luck? or associated problems?
Are the original dealer right in saying it isn't their problem?

All and any thoughts really welcome.

Thanks
Alex
Click to expand...
You may have the right to reject but get advice quickly as time is the enemy for this one. Within six months of purchase the assumption is the fault existed when the vehicle was sold, this does not mean the dealer needs to refund you (yet) as he has the right to repair, at his cost, with no inconvenience to you, if he is not able to do this then you do have the right to reject although the dealer may deduct a value proportionate to the value you have had from the vehicle in this time, the inland revenue guide to tax relief is a fair benchmark to the value of a car per mile driven, don't let them try to use hire car rates if you get to this point.

The dealer may point to the warrantee, however this really just makes things simpler for them, it does not absolve them of their legal responsibilities or your rights as a purchaser, it is in addition to these two things. Statutory rights not affected etc...

Also, if you bought this on finance then you should direct your responses to the finance company as technically they sold it to you, not the dealer and this may be a simpler (or not) route, either way the claim may be with them so ensure you take up the fight with the right people.

Finally, get advice and do it now as once you have had the van for six months the onus is on you to prove the seller was negligent.
 
The Sale of Goods Act requires goods to be as described, of 'satisfactory quality and fit for purpose.'
It is incumbent upon the seller to ensure that the goods meet this description. However, the seller will reasonably argue that they carried out the required pre-sale service and safety checks, including checking the status of the warning lights etc, before selling the vehicle to you.
It is also incumbent upon you to visually assess the condition of the goods prior to purchase and determine if there are any defects etc.

At this point both you and the seller can claim that you carried out inspections on the vehicle and no defects were found or reported. For your case to stand up in a court you need to be able to prove that the defect was already in place and was known about by the seller. This is where it gets tricky as it would be unreasonable for the seller to strip the engine down looking for faults or defects that didn't present themselves as being noisy or rattely. A clattery crankshaft is a good indicator of wear to the bearings however, a faulty exhaust gas temperature sensor is not likely to present itself as being defective during the visual inspection, especially in the absence of a warning light. All of your faults have identified themselves through your fault warning lights so the seller can reasonably claim that there were no warning lights displayed when they sold the vehicle.

So let's go back to the seller for a second. Did they perform a fault code scan prior to sale? What were the results? Did they keep a record of it? This is key to determining the seller's 'awareness' (or not) of any defects when the van was sold to you. For the unscrupulous seller it's very easy to reset fault code warnings but they have a tendency to pop back up a few days/weeks/months later. I'm not entirely sure but I would think it would be relatively easy for a VW tech to determine when the van's system was scanned last. You can then use this to determine if the seller was aware of any of the defects.
 
Teesix said:
The Sale of Goods Act requires goods to be as described, of 'satisfactory quality and fit for purpose.'
It is incumbent upon the seller to ensure that the goods meet this description. However, the seller will reasonably argue that they carried out the required pre-sale service and safety checks, including checking the status of the warning lights etc, before selling the vehicle to you.
It is also incumbent upon you to visually assess the condition of the goods prior to purchase and determine if there are any defects etc.

At this point both you and the seller can claim that you carried out inspections on the vehicle and no defects were found or reported. For your case to stand up in a court you need to be able to prove that the defect was already in place and was known about by the seller. This is where it gets tricky as it would be unreasonable for the seller to strip the engine down looking for faults or defects that didn't present themselves as being noisy or rattely. A clattery crankshaft is a good indicator of wear to the bearings however, a faulty exhaust gas temperature sensor is not likely to present itself as being defective during the visual inspection, especially in the absence of a warning light. All of your faults have identified themselves through your fault warning lights so the seller can reasonably claim that there were no warning lights displayed when they sold the vehicle.

So let's go back to the seller for a second. Did they perform a fault code scan prior to sale? What were the results? Did they keep a record of it? This is key to determining the seller's 'awareness' (or not) of any defects when the van was sold to you. For the unscrupulous seller it's very easy to reset fault code warnings but they have a tendency to pop back up a few days/weeks/months later. I'm not entirely sure but I would think it would be relatively easy for a VW tech to determine when the van's system was scanned last. You can then use this to determine if the seller was aware of any of the defects.
Click to expand...
This is not correct, within the first six months you do not need to prove the seller was aware of the fault, they may honestly believe there were no faults at the point of sale, however they are still responsible for the quality of the goods, unless faults are declared and accepted, there are exceptions for auctions and private sellers. After this point you are correct.
After the first month though the seller does have the opportunity to rectify the fault. If they are unable to do so you may reject the vehicle although this may still be a bun fightand as ever, an agreement is preferable to a court case.
 
Malalajan said:
This is not correct, within the first six months you do not need to prove the seller was aware of the fault, they may honestly believe there were no faults at the point of sale, however they are still responsible for the quality of the goods, unless faults are declared and accepted, there are exceptions for auctions and private sellers. After this point you are correct.
After the first month though the seller does have the opportunity to rectify the fault. If they are unable to do so you may reject the vehicle although this may still be a bun fightand as ever, an agreement is preferable to a court case.
Click to expand...
Apologies, I stand corrected.
 
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