Electrical safety

[Vinci]

There are without doubt some hugely skilled people on this forum, of which I am not one, let’s get that straight.... I am happy to pay experts.
So electric installation and safety. Many have done their own, perfectly ok, BUT what standard should this be done to, both by diyers and commercial outfits....and don’t assume the latter do proper installs. My van was professionally converted, with one return due to poor connections (warning bells) but worked since. However, I had another company do a solar install, and removing the swivel seat revealed, well, included an unsecured battery, and a fuse box too tall for the space ...so couple of hours of a competent electricians time was required to tidy the rats nest.
My point is, bad electrics cause fires, what will insurers say, how do we ensure the appropriate quality, and what accreditation should we be looking for? And if diying, what quality marks should we be looking for?
ps Any good auto electricians around Bath/Bristol.....son wants sparky stuff done on his van? Thanks.

 

[DXX]

There are without doubt some hugely skilled people on this forum, of which I am not one, let’s get that straight.... I am happy to pay experts.
So electric installation and safety. Many have done their own, perfectly ok, BUT what standard should this be done to, both by diyers and commercial outfits....and don’t assume the latter do proper installs. My van was professionally converted, with one return due to poor connections (warning bells) but worked since. However, I had another company do a solar install, and removing the swivel seat revealed, well, included an unsecured battery, and a fuse box too tall for the space ...so couple of hours of a competent electricians time was required to tidy the rats nest.
My point is, bad electrics cause fires, what will insurers say, how do we ensure the appropriate quality, and what accreditation should we be looking for? And if diying, what quality marks should we be looking for?
ps Any good auto electricians around Bath/Bristol.....son wants sparky stuff done on his van? Thanks.

Good question I’ve had the same thoughts. Without any doubt an insurance loss adjuster will always look to minimise the insurers cost, that is what they are paid to do.
The more serious the claim the more likely an engineer will be involved and if it involves serious injury / loss of life no doubt the Police will be involved.
From what I’ve seen on the forum there is a wide range of installation quality as to be expected.
I’d like to think that a professional converter has the answer to your question.

 

[Dellmassive]

There is no Standard as far as i know..... (for 12v side of the installation)

not Like BS 7671:2018 Requirements for Electrical Installations that cover domestic / commercial 240v installations.

its the same with high AMP powered car stereo systems . . . (I've seen two cars have electrical fires due to poorly installed systems when pulling large currents)

you have to have faith that the installer you chose has the knowledge, training, skills and experience to carry out the work safety and competently.

A professional converter would normally have a "Auto Electrician" as part of the team that knows all about cables, Amp and Volts etc.

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Because there is no set standards as such personal opinions and ways of doing things can vary wildly between installers. and opinions can be very critical.

But electrical safety is not to be taken lightly.


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Lets ask out trade member & Auto Electrical Installer @travelvolts for an opinion . . . .


**************************************************

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(@travelvolts) Electrics | Travelvolts

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on the 240vac side there are mentions of "Caravan 240v electric" . . . (an old document but interesting all the same)

https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/media/1022895/mains-electrical-installations-mo.pdf

quotes below . . .

3. UK Regulations The distribution and supply of electrical power in the UK, as well as wiring installations in buildings, caravan sites and caravans is governed by the British Standard BS7671, 2001


Site Socket Outlet The British Standard requires each site socket outlet to be 3 pin, 16 Amp, 250V (maximum) in accordance with BS EN 60309-2, which also requires the socket to be colour coded blue to indicate the rated voltage


Site to Caravan Connection The maximum permitted distance between socket outlet and any point on the caravan pitch is 20 metres. To connect the caravan to the socket outlet, a connecting cable is required. This cable must be 3 core (each core to be 2.5mm² do not use thinner cable), PVC/PVC, flexible cable and 25 metres (+/- 2 metres) in length. It is recommended that the cable is coloured orange for good visibility in longer grass. Shorter lengths of cables, although less expensive and less bulky to carry, may limit the choice of pitch. Note that caravan manufacturers must now provide hook-up cable. At one end of this cable, a connector should be fitted for plugging into the caravan inlet. At the other end of the cable, a plug is fitted for connection to the site socket. Both items must be to BS EN 60309-2 (formerly known as „CEE17‟) and coloured blue.

Caravan Inlet This must be to BS EN 60309-2 and again rated at 16 Amp. The inlet must be installed not more than 1.8 metres above ground level, in a readily accessible position

4.04.01 Wiring - Caravan Inlet to Isolating Switch This should be 3 core (each 2.5mm²) PVC/PVC flexible cable. An unbroken length not exceeding 2.0 metres is recommended. Unless routed in conduit or rigid plastic trunking the cable must be supported by insulated clips at intervals not exceeding 400mm for vertical runs or 750mm for horizontal runs.

4.04.02 Wiring from Circuit Breaker to Appliances Mains cables shall run separately from 12V cables, so that as far as is reasonably practical, that there is no risk of physical contact between the two wiring systems. The cross-sectional area of every conductor shall be not less than 1.5mm². Flexible single core PVC insulated and sheathed cables may be used. All cables unless routed in rigid conduit and all flexible conduit, must be supported by insulated clips at intervals not exceeding 400mm for vertical runs or 250mm for horizontal runs. Cable joints must be made at junction boxes of non-flammable material. These should be accessible. No electrical equipment shall be installed in LPG compartments and cables should not be routed through such compartments.


4.05 Isolating Switch/Residual Current Device/Distribution Board The British Standard requires the caravan to be fitted with an isolating switch and overcurrent protection, i.e. fuses and mcb‟s. Also required is an RCD complying with BS 4293, BS EN 61008 - 1 or BS EN 6 AN 1009 - breaking all live conductors and having a rated residual operating current not exceeding 30 mA and an operating time not exceeding 40 ms at a residual current of 150 mA (compliant with BS 4293). Distribution boards are available with mcb‟s which are easier to reset instead of replacing a fuse. A version with two mcb‟s (one 5 or 6 Amp and one 10 or 16 Amp) should suit most caravan owners. The lower rated mcb should protect the lighting circuit, TV, refrigerator (LV) and battery charger circuits, whilst the 10 or 16 Amp mcb should protect the socket outlets used for heavier consumption appliances such as electric kettles, toasters, hairdryers, etc. It must be remembered that the mcb fuses are purely to protect the caravan wiring against overloading and must not be regarded as an indication of the power available.


4.06 Bonding Except where the caravan or motor caravan is made substantially of insulating material, and metal parts are unlikely to become live in the event of a fault, extraneous-conductive-parts shall be bonded to the circuit protective conductor with a conductor of minimum cross-sectional area of 4mm²

4.07 Switches, Socket Outlets and Spur Socket Outlets Switches and socket outlets should be mounted in boxes designed for that specific purpose. Switched socket outlets should be of the 13 Amp 3 pin (flat sided) type, to BS 1363, but must not be exposed to outside conditions.

4.09 12V Power Supply/Battery Charger Caravans having a mains installation as original equipment are normally fitted with a unit comprising of a mains battery charger and a 12V DC fused distribution board. Subject to available space, such units can be fitted to existing caravans. The unit should be in accordance with BS EN 1648-1. and wired in accordance with manufacturers' instructions. NOTE: This unit has two separate functions: a) To provide a 12V power supply to lights, heater controls, pumps etc. b) To charge the 12V battery If a 230V supply is available on site the caravan will draw its 12V supply from the unit and "top up" from the battery on peak load. When the 12V load is reduced the battery will then receive a charge, although note that this system is not designed to fully re-charge a flat battery.

 

[AussieMick]

For what its worth in Australia all 240v wiring and equipment has to be installed by a licensed electrician. This applies to vehicles as well.
You will then be supplied with a certificate of compliance.
If anything goes wrong your insurance company will definitely ask to see this and if at the extreme someone was electrocuted you would be in a world of hurt from the authorities.
I would imagine the UK would be similar wouldn't it.

 

[sparkywig]

For what its worth in Australia all 240v wiring and equipment has to be installed by a licensed electrician. This applies to vehicles as well.
You will then be supplied with a certificate of compliance.
If anything goes wrong your insurance company will definitely ask to see this and if at the extreme someone was electrocuted you would be in a world of hurt from the authorities.
I would imagine the UK would be similar wouldn't it.

No, anybody can carry out electrical works as the wiring regulations aren't statutory. If something goes wrong, then the only legal compliance is with the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 and the Health & Safety at Work Act 1974.
It's a major bone of contention with qualified registered electricians.

@Dellmassive caravans and motorhomes are covered by BS 7671:2018 Section 721:Electrical installations in caravans and motor caravans.

 

[Vinci]

Thank you for the knowledgable replies. What I take from this, is, ask when getting work/conversions done, what qualifications does the person doing the install have, buyer beware stuff. And if buying, as with bricks and mortar, ask for proof of safety check/competence. I doubt this post will do much for my popularity, but we do invest a lot of hard earned ££££ in our vans and should be entitled to a verifiable safe install.

 

[Mud Digger]

@Vinci was a very good question more should increase your popularity for joining in ... the forum has some great info from very experienced people... which can be much more important than just a qualification but after your installation if in Doupt... ASK or get an electrician to test it through before final connection just the same as a house alteration

Next is Trust we are forced into TRUST .... we hope an installer has done his job to last for years leaving no trapped or rubbing wires including this to gas cylinder installations and cookers / gas fridges copper pipe rubbing on copper pipe wears through very quick

 

[DXX]

There are companies which sell habitation surveys, here’s one of them. Obviously it makes sense to have these done independently.
As for value, who guarantees the qualification of the inspector?????
Selling services to worriers is a growing UK industry backed up by the media who seem to encourage worrying.

What is a habitation check?

What is a habitation check? - A habitation check makes sure that your motorhome or caravan is safe to spend time in and sleep in. Book your check now.

habcheck.co.uk

 

[Kevin]

I had my camper checked last February, and he checked the 12v, 240v and gas. Not much to check for habitation as no shower etc. Only have cold water storage that feeds the sink. No fixed tanks. The chap that did the checks is registered and does motorhomes and caravans.

 

[sparkywig]

If you've had any new 230V installations or alterations done at all they should supply you with an electrical installation certificate.
And a periodic inspection carried out preferably not less than once every three years, and annually if the motor caravan is used frequently.

 

[3crispies]

We always carry a martindale type tester to check polarty on ours especially when travelling abroad. Im lucky as I have actually checked tripping times comply on our rcd fitted under the bonnet. Tbh a few years back I checked lots of older type 2s at a campout and it was an eye opener.... Also use cable ferrules on all stranded cabling connections... Remember wet grass, metal van and 230v dont mix so get a test on your install even the inverter side although low amps.

Martindale BZ101 Buzz Socket Tester - Due 1st June | Martindale (BZ101)

 

[Kevin]

If you've had any new 230V installations or alterations done at all they should supply you with an electrical installation certificate.
And a periodic inspection carried out preferably not less than once every three years, and annually if the motor caravan is used frequently.

1st check after three years. No work done, just checked and yes I received all the relevant certificates for gas and electric inspections. The guy I used is registered and approved as part of the national network.