Dead turbo at 46k miles :-(

[Doggle]

Hello all,

VW Caravelle registered 2019, bought from main dealer at 6 months old with 2k miles. 204 biturbo model.
Now 4 1/2 years old and about 18 months out of warranty. about 46k miles on it.
Completely stock. Used as a daily family bus, Full service history (local to me - VW specialist.. main dealer is over 30 miles away).
Driving home after a day at the beach when grinding/whining noise occurred followed by lost power. Limped home.
Had it trailered to VW dealer 2 days later, they just looked at it today - main shaft on big turbo has snapped apparently..
VW want £5K to fix!!! Haven't even paid the bloody van off yet!


From what I can see these models seem to be prone to early turbo failure, especially when remapped, I haven't seen one on here that's failed at such low miles. I have remonstrated with the service department and asked what they can do to reduce bill given lowish miles etc. To be fair the chap was very nice and said he would see what he could do re. goodwill and will get back to me about it. Local specialist says he may be able to recondition the dead turbo for about half of what VW are quoting.

If this is something to be expected, pretty disappointing for a van which cost £50k+ new.

Anyone on here been successful with out of warranty goodwill for turbo issues? Am I on a hiding to nothing? Be keen to hear everyone's thoughts on this!

Thanks for your input.

M

 

[Trouts]

sorry to hear this @Doggle
sounds like there a few issues with the 204 bi turbo engine. have a search on here, there's loads of info from other in a similar boat...



edit: here for example...

2017 204ps Bi-Turbo issues - Seized turbo!

I guess it's my turn? Driving up to Caravan and Camping Show, coil light starts flashing, ad blue suddenly low (topped up fully one week prior), no power. Engine temp fine, oil fine, engine sounds fine. Turned around and went home. Brought to a VAG specialist garage, they say: - split vacuum...

www.t6forum.com

and here:

Tale of woe

@Tourershine here’s a saying of my sister’s worrying about tomorrow spoils today, Relax and enjoy your holiday. John.

www.t6forum.com

 

[sdlnet]

I had one go with even less miles and VW wanted about the same amount to repair it. It was six months out of warranty, granted it wasn't a transporter but the same engine. I specifically went for the 150 DSG for that reason.

 

[Dellmassive]

Regular oil and filter service may help.

Did yours have the first 12.5k miles oil change, then at leat every 18k miles or so.. or sooner.

So that Van should have had three oil changes, (at least) by 45,k miles.


So do we know the service history?

 

[Crazymind]

Very disappointing. I feel for you. There was a time when you could rely on proper build quality. My 1987 Saab 900 Turbo, 183k miles still on its original turbo.

 

[Doggle]

Thank you all for your input.

I'm sorry @Dellmassive I can't remember the exact intervals but I can see if I can dig them out. First service was a free one by VW dealer. After that it's had two oil changes by local specialist. I understand that the service requirements are on an online VW portal thing which my specialist uses We do about 10k miles a year in it.

@Crazymind my 2012 Volvo D5 biturbo is still on original turbo at 150k (drinks a bit of oil but has done so for my entire ownership since 117k miles) with no engine issues.

I understand from the various threads on here that the biturbo failure seems to be a question of when rather than if! However £5k ever 5 years for a consumable turbo seems a bit much!

No factory goodwill unfortunately but will speak to customer services today to see if they can offer anything..

 

[DXX]

There’s a very good chance that poor oil quality is the cause. The acceptable limit for fuel dilution is 2% by volume. Re-generations plus potential injector failure will force fuel under high boost pressure into the crankcase.
The ONLY way to monitor this is with regular oil analysis. Sniffing the dipstick doesn’t work unless you are a cocker spaniel who’s been specifically trained for the job.
I hope you get it sorted with minimal cost although I suspect that won’t be with a VW dealership.

 

[Doggle]

So what is the solution to avoid in the future? Halve the oil change interval?

 

[DXX]

So what is the solution to avoid in the future? Halve the oil change interval?

monitor this is with regular oil analysis

Once you see a trend you can decide on an interval

 

[Doggle]

Once you see a trend you can decide on an interval

Thank you, so I guess one would analyse at maybe 3 months then 6 months to start with?

 

[DXX]

Thank you, so I guess one would analyse at maybe 3 months then 6 months to start with?

Milage not time, it’s the running hours that determine the contamination. If I were you I would also disable the stop/start as a turbocharger losing oil pressure while still spinning at a high speed is not good for longevity.

 

[Westy78]

Just had mine replaced at 51,000miles. The biturbo part number has been superseded 3 times so VW know it’s an issue. My bill was much the same at an independent but included charge cooler, new sensor and further modified egr pipes as the new turbos were completely different. Labour was less than 20% of the total invoice

 

[DXX]

further modified egr pipes as the new turbos were completely different

That seems a bit odd, the rear EGR pipe (feed to EGR) connects on the far left side of the exhaust manifold and is nowhere near either turbocharger?

 

[Westy78]

Exhaust manifold changed with turbo as it comes as one unit

 

[Doggle]

Thank you for your replies and wealth of knowledge. No luck from VW customer services. I suspect that if they offered goodwill on these biturbo issues then they would suddenly be paying out a lot of cash to everyone with a low mileage turbo failure.

Getting it recovered to local VW specialist tomorrow. Been quoted £4300 inc VAT for new turbo as well as EGR blanking and adblue SCR delete. With any luck new turbo will last beyond 5 years.

I suspect, as @DXX says, fuel-oil dilution is the cause and I will try to arrange oil analysis as apparently VW didn't drop the oil to do the original diagnostics.

I knew modern engines were sensitive to oil quality, didn't realise they were THAT sensitive. Expensive lesson learned.

 

[DXX]

Thank you for your replies and wealth of knowledge. No luck from VW customer services. I suspect that if they offered goodwill on these biturbo issues then they would suddenly be paying out a lot of cash to everyone with a low mileage turbo failure.

Getting it recovered to local VW specialist tomorrow. Been quoted £4300 inc VAT for new turbo as well as EGR blanking and adblue SCR delete. With any luck new turbo will last beyond 5 years.

I suspect, as @DXX says, fuel-oil dilution is the cause and I will try to arrange oil analysis as apparently VW didn't drop the oil to do the original diagnostics.

I knew modern engines were sensitive to oil quality, didn't realise they were THAT sensitive. Expensive lesson learned.

The oil sample from the failed engine maybe of limited value as the turbocharger failure will have introduced contaminants. If you are going to sample don’t do it from dropped oil, use a syringe and tube down the dipstick to avoid external contamination, probably the only data worth looking at is viscosity and fuel dilution.
Don’t forget to get the sump removed, clean the oil pickup screen and purge the turbocharger oil drain line.
I would assume that the repaired will also replace the charge air cooler.

 

[Doggle]

Don’t forget to get the sump removed, clean the oil pickup screen and purge the turbocharger oil drain line.
I would assume that the repaired will also replace the charge air cooler.

Don't know but I will ask. Why is replacing the charge air cooler important? I assume because the old one contains bits of turbo?

 

[DXX]

Don't know but I will ask. Why is replacing the charge air cooler important? I assume because the old one contains bits of turbo?

Yes, if you can account for all of the bits then you could just back flush with water at a high flow rate while it’s off the engine.
However, if the charge air cooler is weakened it could dump water into the cylinders in the future or a piece of turbo’ could be ingested.
It’s a case of evaluating the individual situation and balancing up the cost against the risk.