CXGB ECU 4047 software update for P20EE

[Lannust]

Hello all. I get the P20EE 00 DTC, but no emission's warning light - yet.

Friday,03,February,2023,19:55:03:16362
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 22.10.0.1 (x64) HEX-NET2 CB: 0.4623.4
Data version: 20221026 DS344.0

VIN: WV1ZZZ7HZKH01xxxx License Plate:
Mileage: Repair Order:
Address 01: Engine Labels: 04L-907-309-V2.clb
Control Module Part Number: 04L 906 056 KA HW: 04L 907 445
Component and/or Version: R4 2.0l TDI H02 4047
Software Coding: 00114010430401090000
Work Shop Code: WSC 00012 790 50316
ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM20TDI03004L906056KA 004003 (VN75)
ROD: EV_ECM20TDI03004L906056KA.rod
VCID: 76BE8CDFF844C31BC1E-8022
1 Fault Found:

31103 - SCR NOx Catalyst Bank 1
P20EE 00 [038] - Efficiency too Low
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 3
Mileage: 56490 km
Date: 2050.01.18
Time: 14:43:02

Engine RPM: 2316.00 /min
Normed load value: 70.6 %
Vehicle speed: 98 km/h
Coolant temperature: 91 °C
Intake air temperature: 12 °C
Ambient air pressure: 1000 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 13.070 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Air mass at air mass meter 1: 223.2 kg/h
Outside temperature sensor 1: B1: raw value: 11.5 °C
Mass airflow sensor 1 bank 1 airflow: raw value: 809.5 mg/stroke
Throttl.valve adapt. 1 bank 1: posit feedback - Actual value: 0.00 %
NOx sensor before SCR cat conv: offset correction factor: 0 ppm
NOx sensor after SCR cat conv: offset correction factor: 173 ppm
Reducing agent quality sensor: urea concentration: 0.00 %
Reducing agent quality sensor: raw temperature value: 0.0 °C
Readiness: N/A

My nearest VW service desk say my van doesn't have any outstanding updates. How do you get the 6163 update when their 'computer says no'?
Was the 2019 - 2020 update campaign for T6 with VIN's starting WV2?
My van is going in for a minor service and cambelt next week. Any advice gratefully received.....

Cheers Simon

 

[topcat203]

I was told about the update by someone on this site (I had been having issues!) Also had the no updates listed from VW ! So I asked/ told the service centre to do the update which they duly did. No problems since! If you don't ask you don't get!

 

[mmi]

Was the 2019 - 2020 update campaign for T6 with VIN's starting WV2?

It was a mandatory update for M1 class vehicles - Transporters VIN starting WV2. For the rest of Transporters it was available if deemed necessary.

Welcome to VAG-Flashinfo!

VAG Flashfiles Informations - Version check of VAG ECUs - Update check for Audi, Seat, Skoda and Volkswagen

vag-flashinfo.de

[T6_measured] NOx emissions, AdBlue consumption, DPF regeneration - Before and after ECU update

Introduction An update campaign for T6 EU6 diesel engines took place in 2019-20. Affected engines were on van of model years MY16-MY18, including some of MY19. For M1 class (passenger carriers, VIN WV2...) the update was an official recall. For N1 class (VIN WV1....) the update was not...

www.t6forum.com

P20EE 00 [038] - Efficiency too Low
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear

By default VCDS uses "aggressive" scan which reports even ancient events. Is the fault code still there when using non-aggressive scan:
VCDS > Engine > Fault codes - untick "Use aggressive mode"

 

[Lannust]

I was told about the update by someone on this site (I had been having issues!) Also had the no updates listed from VW ! So I asked/ told the service centre to do the update which they duly did. No problems since! If you don't ask you don't get!

Thanks topcat203, I have asked them directly about the 6163 update, they looked up the van and said there is no update and if it isn't listed as available then they can't apply an update from a different vehicle!

 

[Lannust]

It was a mandatory update for M1 class vehicles - Transporters VIN starting WV2. For the rest of Transporters it was available if deemed necessary.

Welcome to VAG-Flashinfo!

VAG Flashfiles Informations - Version check of VAG ECUs - Update check for Audi, Seat, Skoda and Volkswagen

vag-flashinfo.de

[T6_measured] NOx emissions, AdBlue consumption, DPF regeneration - Before and after ECU update

Introduction An update campaign for T6 EU6 diesel engines took place in 2019-20. Affected engines were on van of model years MY16-MY18, including some of MY19. For M1 class (passenger carriers, VIN WV2...) the update was an official recall. For N1 class (VIN WV1....) the update was not...

www.t6forum.com

By default VCDS uses "aggressive" scan which reports even ancient events. Is the fault code still there when using non-aggressive scan:
VCDS > Engine > Fault codes - untick "Use aggressive mode"

mmi, thanks for the links. OK, with my WV1/N1 class van, the update falls into the 'if deemed necessary category'. When I bought it in Jan 2022 there was a historic/no freeze frame data P20EE dtc showing in the first vcds scan I did, suggesting this fault had occurred while owned by the previous owner, presumably it wouldn't have shown up as a current dtc on ODIS when VW put it through their workshop as a used vehicle sale.

So, what criteria do they use to 'deem as necessary'? A current dtc with freeze frame data? The freeze frame data I quoted above disappeared in a few days/miles.
Will they take customer vcds log printouts as evidence of an intermittent problem?

Is there a 'published' version available of that particular technical/service bulletin that I could wave at them when it goes in for the service?

It seems that there is an update available:
View attachment 95021
It should cure both P204F and P20EE issues.

The long term solution would be to get the ECU updated. It's a bit difficult to predict if/when it will reappear. I recorded on mine 26 occurrences of the P20EE but it never crossed the threshold to turn on emission warning light.

Worth noting that VCDS has two different modes to scan the faults.
View attachment 95024
The trick is that VW tester ODIS uses "non-aggressive" mode which e.g. doesn't show your P204F fault (no freeze frame data any more). Also the current P20EE will be beyond their reach after approx. 300 km's - the ECU makes it fade away but fortunately keeps updating the frequency counter.

In the last line of the quote above, you suggest that the fault frequency counter keeps updating.
Where can I find the updated frequency counter for a dtc that has become historic/faded and lost the freeze frame data?

Your tenacity in recording and analysing vcds log files is most impressive and informative where ever you appear in the forum. I have found your .u01 files very useful and convenient, as gleaned from several discussions, thank you.

Cheers
Simon

 

[mmi]

In the last line of the quote above, you suggest that the fault frequency counter keeps updating.
Where can I find the updated frequency counter for a dtc that has become historic/faded and lost the freeze frame data?

When the freeze frame data eventually "disappears" from VCDS aggressive mode view, then also the frequency counter is lost/zeroed. The next occurrence would restart the counter from 1 again.

To clarify - the freeze frame data stays there some time visible in aggressive mode so if the faults occurs during that time the frequency counter is incremented. However, the fault might still be invisible in "non-aggressive" mode.

I have also noticed not the all faults are behaving the same way - the above (aggressive/non-aggressive vs. visible in VW ODIS) seems to be valid for emission related codes. The others VW ODIS seem to handle differently - the same as VCDS aggressive mode. Confusing? - yes indeed it is!

So, what criteria do they use to 'deem as necessary'? A current dtc with freeze frame data? The freeze frame data I quoted above disappeared in a few days/miles.

I guess there is not much logic - except the emission light caused by P20EE. The emission light would mean permanent emission fault and thus needs attention.

Will they take customer vcds log printouts as evidence of an intermittent problem?

No, not really. For VW to participate in any cost-sharing, their own ODIS fault finding protocol must be used.

Your tenacity in recording and analysing vcds log files is most impressive and informative where ever you appear in the forum. I have found your .u01 files very useful and convenient, as gleaned from several discussions, thank you.

Thank you, very much appreciated. The VCDS is a magnificent diagnostic tool to get actual data and understanding how things work inside. I'm afraid it will even more valuable as our vans age - just trying to capture how the things should work as long as my van still is (almost) faultless.

 

[Lannust]

When the freeze frame data eventually "disappears" from VCDS aggressive mode view, then also the frequency counter is lost/zeroed. The next occurrence would restart the counter from 1 again.

To clarify - the freeze frame data stays there some time visible in aggressive mode so if the faults occurs during that time the frequency counter is incremented. However, the fault might still be invisible in "non-aggressive" mode.

I have also noticed not the all faults are behaving the same way - the above (aggressive/non-aggressive vs. visible in VW ODIS) seems to be valid for emission related codes. The others VW ODIS seem to handle differently - the same as VCDS aggressive mode. Confusing? - yes indeed it is!


I guess there is not much logic - except the emission light caused by P20EE. The emission light would mean permanent emission fault and thus needs attention.

No, not really. For VW to participate in any cost-sharing, their own ODIS fault finding protocol must be used.


Thank you, very much appreciated. The VCDS is a magnificent diagnostic tool to get actual data and understanding how things work inside. I'm afraid it will even more valuable as our vans age - just trying to capture how the things should work as long as my van still is (almost) faultless.

OK, agreed, the frequency counter disappears when the freeze frame data is removed. I may have misunderstood the 'last line' - "....the ECU makes it fade away but fortunately keeps updating the frequency counter.", I thought you meant vcds could find a 'hidden' counter continuing to run for historic dtc's with faded freeze frame data, lurking somewhere in the ecu measuring values/data in a vcds mode that I hadn't found.

The above P20EE dtc counted 1 on the first part of my journey and added 2 more instances on the return. I have not yet had the emissions light come on, or any other 'warning' lights since owning the van.

I am sure I did a vcds mobile scan late one night having got home and found the frequency counter showing over 60 counts. Unfortunately being vcds mobile if that scan actually saved, it is somewhere on the RossTech cloud server. I haven't worked out how to get into the cloud!
Finding such a high frequency count I cranked up the laptop the next day and vcds only showed a historic P20EE and obviously no freeze frame data. I am 95% certain that vcds was in aggressive mode - that its standard startup mode, isnt it?
Anyway it prompted me to note the fact, and wonder why vcds mobile had showed 60+ counts when vcds pc had shown nothing?
It is possible that a regen was done during that high count journey, but I am surprised the ecu would be programmed to log P20EE dtc's during a procedure that causes chronically high NOx output by default (as shown in your data graphing) - especially with the 4047 ecu software!

Yes, as a long time VW/Audi user, VCDS is a nice piece of software, and you're quite right, those of us that can and have an interest in 'data' should be trying to collect it from known good vehicles to help in the future when perhaps they become less 'reliable' and good data is needed to compare against. I also have a Picoscope, but compared to my old T4, there are so many components to grab waveforms from on these later generation vehicles, where to start!
Cheers
Simon

 

[mmi]

I am sure I did a vcds mobile scan late one night having got home and found the frequency counter showing over 60 counts. Unfortunately being vcds mobile if that scan actually saved, it is somewhere on the RossTech cloud server. I haven't worked out how to get into the cloud!
Finding such a high frequency count I cranked up the laptop the next day and vcds only showed a historic P20EE and obviously no freeze frame data.

Well, actully doesn't surprise me. Got curious and filtered my P20EE logs (before the update) and actually found a somewhat similar case:
On a Sunday by 10:00 had accumulated 10 in P20EE counter. Checked again 17:00 - still 10. Checked again at 20:00 - only three remaining in the counter thus the P20EE had disappeared some time between 17:00 and 20:00. On that day it was about 200 km's on motorway between the checkpoints. Then on next check two days (+60 km's) later the freeze frame data was gone.

I am 95% certain that vcds was in aggressive mode - that its standard startup mode, isnt it?

Yes, VCDS runs in aggressive mode - unless explicitly told to do non-aggressive.

Anyway it prompted me to note the fact, and wonder why vcds mobile had showed 60+ counts when vcds pc had shown nothing?

I believe if the checks were done at same session (no ignition cycle) the results would have been identical.

It is possible that a regen was done during that high count journey, but I am surprised the ecu would be programmed to log P20EE dtc's during a procedure that causes chronically high NOx output by default (as shown in your data graphing) - especially with the 4047 ecu software!

Quite possibly one of the quirks which was ironed out with the update. Also the case in mine above - definitely a DPF regen or two was performed during the day.

---

The emission faults seems to have three, or even four, different states: (1) VW unique "early warning" state (~VCDS aggressive), (2) pending, (3) confirmed, (4) emission light on. The states (2) and (3) can be distinguished under VCDS > OBD-II functions: > Mode 1-01, Mode 3, Mode 7, Mode 10

Below a snippet when the fault had eventually stepped up all the way to the top - seen in all three states in addition to "early warning" state (normal VCDS view)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mode 01 - PID 01 : Readiness  --  Address 7E8
Number of DTCs stored: 1  --  MIL Status: MIL ON
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mode 03: Emission related fault codes
Address 7E8: 1 Fault Found:
P0401 - EGR System: Insufficient Flow
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mode 07: Pending emission related fault codes
Address 7E8: 1 Fault Found:
P0401 - EGR System: Insufficient Flow
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------