Charging a leisure battery with a Victron and a Noco

[rellis74]

Hi - this is my first post so excuse me is I should have been able to find info elsewhere...

I have converted a T6 into a day van and fitted a leisure battery under the drivers seat, I have the Victron DC-DC charger fitted for when I'm mobile. I have also fitted a NOCO Genius5UK charger for when I'm on a hook up.. My problem is that because my fridge is always taking power from the battery the NOCO charger stops charging and gives me the 'bad battery' error as it thinks the battery can't hold it's power. What have I done wrong... any ideas how I should have set this system up so I can keep the battery topped up whilst the fridge is constantly running?

 

[Dellmassive]

got a couple of pics of your setup?

 

[Dellmassive]

https://no.co/media/nocodownloads/format/g/e/genius5na_user_guide.pdf

 

[Dellmassive]

Connecting to the Battery.

Do not connect the AC power plug until all other connections are made. Identify the correct polarity of the battery terminals on the battery. Do not make any connections to the carburetor, fuel lines, or thin, sheet metal parts. The below instructions are for a negative ground system (most common). If your vehicle is a positive ground system (very uncommon), follow the below instructions in reverse order.

1.) Connect the positive (red) eyelet terminal connector to the positive (POS,P,+) battery terminal.

2.) Connect the negative (black) eyelet terminal connector to the negative (NEG,N,-) battery terminal.

3.) Connect the battery charger into a suitable electrical outlet. Do not face the battery when making this connection.

4.) When disconnecting, disconnect in the reverse sequence, removing the negative first (or positive first for positive ground systems).


Begin Charging.

1.) Verify the voltage and chemistry of the battery.

2.) Confirm that you have connected the battery clamps or eyelet terminal connectors properly and the AC power plug is plugged into an electrical outlet.

3.) [First time use] The charger can now be left connected to the battery at all times to provide maintenance charging.

4.) Press the mode button to toggle to the appropriate charge mode (press and hold for three seconds to enter an advanced charge mode) for the voltage and chemistry of your battery.

5.) The mode LED will illuminate the selected charge mode and the Charge LEDs will illuminate (depending on the health of the battery) indicating the charging process has started.

6.) The charger can now be left connected to the battery at all times to provide maintenance charging. Auto-Memory: The charger has built in auto-memory and will return to the last charge mode when connected. To change modes after the first use, press the mode button.

 

[rellis74]

Thanks - yes I think I have set it all up correctly, it is the 'error 3' on the diagram above that I get. Basically it charges the battery fine and moves up through the indicator until the green fully charged is reached. but then after 24hours it switches off and gives the 'bad battery' error. I guess this is because the fridge is constantly drawing a charge from the battery so the charger has decided the battery cannot hold it's charge? Just wondered how others overcome this issue, I think you can get a unit to make the fridge run from the 240v power when it is on a hook up, however I don't want to splash out more cash if I can avoid it.

 

[Dellmassive]

got any pics on the setup?

so if you power cycle the NOCO 5A charger it restarts the cycle?

I've sent a ticket to NOCO to see what they come back with.

 

[rellis74]

yes - I switched the charger back on again and it seems to be going though the cycle again and is charging the battery back up. The pic below is my set up before the NORCO was added. I have just simply connected the leads from the NORCO directly to the positive and negative terminals of the battery

 

[rellis74]

This is my wiring diagram - ignore the 16mm2 note between battery charger and battery as I just used the leads that came with the NOCO (having removed the crocodile clips so I could bolt directly onto the battery terminals). I think the setup is all ok, hopefully NOCO have some device on how to overcome it - thanks for asking for me... electrics is the one bit of my van conversion I really don't understand too well.

 

[oldiebut goodie]

Surely the problem is just that you are trying to use a battery charger instead of an adequately rated power supply to run the fridge. I am assuming that the charger is only rated at 5A by its name. Personally I would use something in the region of 16A if using a charger that way. ( or even dig out my 20A one)

 

[oldiebut goodie]

Just turned the wiring diagram so that I can read it - 16mm² cable for a 5A load? Certainly no voltage drop there!

 

[Dellmassive]

The 5A chargers are normally recommended as a starter battery maintainer.

and 10A - 30A are recommended for the main leisure setup depending on kit fitted. ( ie fridge, lights, heater etc etc)

assuming its a decent compressor fridge, the loads should be fairly low over a 24hr period.


So you would still expect a 5A charger to be able to keep the battery topped up - unless the loads are greater than 5A? (we dont know the load Amps yet)


its possible that the charger firmware is deciding that there is an issue . . . . ? - but we wont know until NOCO reply with the Error3 specifications.


one options is to try a larger charger say 10 or 15A.

but id rather go with a voltage logger first to show what is going on with the 12v system.


@rellis74 maybe look at fitting a BM2 battery monitor and post the 24hr/48hr/72hrbattery logs / readout so we can see whats going on.?

they just bolt across the battery . .

Auto Battery Monitor BM2 Car Battery Tester Battery Load Tester Bluetooth 4.0 12V Device Car Battery Tester Auto Cranking Charging System Test Scan Tool Digital Battery Alternator Analyzer (1pcs): Amazon.co.uk: Automotive

Auto Battery Monitor BM2 Car Battery Tester Battery Load Tester Bluetooth 4.0 12V Device Car Battery Tester Auto Cranking Charging System Test Scan Tool Digital Battery Alternator Analyzer (1pcs): Amazon.co.uk: Automotive

amzn.to

.



more info here:

Battery Monitoring -- How I Done It --

Battery Monitoring -- How I Done It -- Part #1 Battery monitoring is a very important part of your 12v system . . . . whether its just the vans starter battery or your leisure setup keeping an eye on the power in your battery bank will keep you from breaking down and make sure your weekends...

www.t6forum.com

.

 

[rellis74]

Thanks all - I'm off to Cornwall now for my first trip in the van. I'll get the battery monitor and also see how I get on through the trip and then post again afterwards.

 

[Pete C]

As above, you need a battery charger that is also capable of acting as a power supply. We have a Victron 10A unit which explicitly says in the spec that it can act as a power supply. It works fine with the fridge.

Pete

 

[Salty Spuds]

I had the same issue with an Optimate charger. Too clever for its own good. As others have said, you need to change your charger. I swapped the Optimate for a Victron blue smart 12/15 IP22. No issues since.

 

[Dellmassive]

I've setup a test.

my NOCO GENIUS 5A . . charging up the solar shed battery bank.

while being discharged from pool pump and LED garden lights. (all solar is switched off)

24hrs test underway. 300hrs (3pm)

charger set to 12v AGM mode.





with charger off we are drawing 4.29A from the battery bank . . .






with the charger on . . we are providing 5A of charge power to the battery bank. (just above the 4.29A draw)

so the net effect is that the battery bank is being charged at 0.54A




..

charger is being monitored . . .




edit. . . 2030hrs still going strong . . . 5A flat out. (showing 75%)



.




edit: 7am next day.

now showing top green light - still charging.

looks like the charge rate has backed off to 2.5A. after the LED lights shut off last night.

pump is still running so the current net effect is the battery is now discharging at -2.1A



.
.

 

[Dellmassive]

these are the chargers we are looking at :

you can see the size difference here:

The 5A would be a starter maintainer, and the 10/15/30A would be the main Leisure charger.



The NOCO chargers look cool, but the Victron is the best IMHO.

why - ?

well the monitoring APP is outstanding, its the same one for the solar mppt kit too.

plus you can programme the units and change the charge parameters, - That alone makes them more versatile than nearly all other chargers out there.


take a look:

5A

NOCO GENIUS5UK, 5-Amp Fully-Automatic Smart Charger, 6V And 12V Battery Charging Units, Battery Maintainer, Trickle Charger, And Battery Desulfator With Temperature Compensation : Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors

NOCO GENIUS5UK, 5-Amp Fully-Automatic Smart Charger, 6V And 12V Battery Charging Units, Battery Maintainer, Trickle Charger, And Battery Desulfator With Temperature Compensation : Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors

amzn.to

+++

10A

NOCO GENIUS10UK, 10-Amp Fully-Automatic Smart Charger, 6V And 12V Battery Charging Units, Battery Maintainer, Trickle Charger, And Battery Desulfator With Temperature Compensation : Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors

NOCO GENIUS10UK, 10-Amp Fully-Automatic Smart Charger, 6V And 12V Battery Charging Units, Battery Maintainer, Trickle Charger, And Battery Desulfator With Temperature Compensation : Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors

amzn.to

+++


15A

Victron Energy BPC121531064R Battery Chargers with Built-in Bluetooth Module : Amazon.co.uk: Automotive

Buy Victron Energy BPC121531064R Battery Chargers with Built-in Bluetooth Module at Amazon UK. Free delivery on eligible orders.

amzn.to

++++


30A

Victron 30A 12V Blue Smart IP22 mains battery charger with Bluetooth connectivity and Lithium battery compatibility (UK plug): Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

Free delivery and returns on eligible orders. Buy Victron 30A 12V Blue Smart IP22 mains battery charger with Bluetooth connectivity and Lithium battery compatibility (UK plug) at Amazon UK.

amzn.to

+++

 

[Dellmassive]

@rellis74 - here is the response from NOCO:

Steve King (NOCO) Jun 24, 2021, 15:49 MST Hello, Thank you for contacting NOCO Support. Our chargers do have load tracking as a feature, but if the load is too large the charger will time out and stop applying a charge to the battery. In addition, charging a battery that is under constant load will diminish the battery's health faster than charging and recharging as the battery is under constant charge and depletion (cycling) at the same time. Sincerely, Steve | Customer Support The NOCO Company Copyright © 2016 The NOCO Company. All Rights Reserved.

so reading that im assuming your loads are larger than the 5A charger ? ( possible but would need to see a BM2 readout for see a current monitor plot)

or your battery is weak / knackered and not holding a charge ? (how old is battery)

or - the charger is not moving back to BULK / ABS stage after a float stage ( im testing that above)


I've sent them a reply asking for more specific's.