204ps Oil Consumption and EGR Delete - An attempt at a summary

[Cuiken]

A lot has been written on this and I've read it all. I thought it might be useful to try to summarise in one spot. I'll break this down into single statements and questions so it's easier to agree/disagree/answer. Please take a read and comment if you think any of this is incorrect.

1. The 204ps engine has a tendency to use a bit of oil. Not all examples, but apparently quite a few of them. This need not be a disaster. Just check your oil level from time to time and keep a litre of suitable oil in the back (after all, we've got plenty of space). 1 litre of oil per 10k miles seems pretty normal.

2. In some unfortunate instances, there is an issue with the EGR design that means some abrasive combustion by-products in the exhaust gas are allowed back into the engine via the EGR and can score the cylinders of the engine block. This can result in unacceptable oil consumption as oil can make it into the combustion chamber via these scratches in the cylinder walls. Worst case, this can require an engine replacement

3. Some people decide to 'delete' their EGR valve in order to remove the risk of engine block damage. Deletion involves physically removing and 'blanking' the valve itself and then updating the ECU programming so that it is unbothered by the lack of EGR signal. Mixed thoughts on this within the T6 community. Some worry it will result in MOT fails, others say it doesn't show up in an MOT test (provided the tester doesn't go looking for the mod).


Questions:

1. Local garages I have spoken to have said that the DPF must also be removed if the EGR is deleted. However, other people seem to say that this is not required and that the EGR can be deleted in isolation. Keen to hear of any experiences here either way

2. Could increased regularity of oil changes help here?

3. Do short journeys and driving at low revs exacerbate this problem (increased coking up of EGR)? I'm wondering if this would make a case for remapping a DSG gearbox.

 

[AdamGT]

Seems to me that all EGR's do it never mind 204ps engines
Seen a few 150's do just this

 

[chris9809]

I’ve just had to replace my EGR valve on my unmodified 102hp 2016 van. I think basically it should be viewed as a service item that around 50k miles will need replacing. Cost £260 to buy and just under 2 hrs DIY on the drive. Pretty simple job.

 

[Cuiken]

I’ve just had to replace my EGR valve on my unmodified 102hp 2016 van. I think basically it should be viewed as a service item that around 50k miles will need replacing. Cost £260 to buy and just under 2 hrs DIY on the drive. Pretty simple job.

Qudos on the DIY job. I believe the 204ps version is a bit more involved (and more expensive to buy). The garage I used to replace mine (VW van dealership) took the whole front of the van off to gain access!

Either way, I htink there is a distinction between engines that require a new EGR (I agree this is almost a service item now) and those where EGR has gone on to cause further engine damage.

Forum posts and websites like those below detail a manner of EGR failure (apparently specific to, or at least most common with, the CFCA 180ps engine) where the exhaust gas cooler 'distintegrates' resulting in aluminium particles finding their way into the inlet manifold and ultimately the cylinders. This goes on to cause scoring of the cylinder walls and so oil consumption and compression loss:

2016 180 Bi turbo CFCA engine failure is the EGR valve corrosion the cause of the scored and worn out bores

Hi all Just stripped down and rebuilt the engine on a 2016 T6 180 bi-turbo CFCA engine after it failed on the A557 heading for Widnes originally had the van recovered to VW van center Liverpool for repair as I thought it was just a failed injector. After a couple of weeks, they said it had no...

www.t6forum.com

VW Transporter T5.1 / T6 excessive oil use for CFCA 2.0 180hp BiTDi engines - EGR Cooler failure - Hypermiler.co.uk

VW Transporter T5.1 / T6 excessive oil use for CFCA 2.0 180hp BiTDi engines - EGR Cooler failure - Hypermiler.co.uk

www.hypermiler.co.uk

I'm not in a position to verify any vulnerabilities of to the CFCA engine but it's fair to say they are fairly widely discussed. In interest of balance, there are plenty of 180ps vans rolling around without issues.

What I'm curious about is what feature of the EGR system on the 180ps CFCA engine might cause a vulnerability. From the sites above, it would seem to the be the aluminium cooler that is a key element of the failure.

Do other versions of the engine use a different material for the EGR cooler? I requested the garage give me the old failed EGR from my van and the cooler seems to be made from stainless steel (or at least the outer shell does). I find this quite reasuring but, to be completly sure of its construction, I'd need to cut the unit open and see if the internal structure includes any aluminium parts. Does anyone else have any knowledge of this?

 

[DXX]

What I'm curious about is what feature of the EGR system on the 180ps CFCA engine might cause a vulnerability. From the sites above, it would seem to the be the aluminium cooler that is a key element of the failure.

Correct, I believe the alum’ body is plastic coated but this protection doesn’t last. To make matters worse the CFCA design is a combined oil cooler/filter/EGR valve/cooler.
An engineering disaster waiting to happen, easy to rectify though.

Do other versions of the engine use a different material for the EGR cooler?

Acid resistant stainless steel is used, no corrosion issues.
I have opened other EGRs.

 

[Cuiken]

Acid resistant stainless steel is used, no corrosion issues.
I have opened other EGRs.

This is really helpful info, thanks.

I have read in several places that the design vulnerability remains present on the 204ps engine (somehow suggesting it relates to the twin turbo design) but I haven't been able to find any reason why that should be the case if the EGR no longer includes the aluminium cooler.

Personally, I find this very reassuring given that my van has always used a little oil. My worst case imagining that I'm about to incur a bill for a whole new block seems less likely.

Given the relative robustness of the 204ps EGR (or at least that its failure does not lead to engine damage), it seems to me that an EGR delete is less of a priority provided you can live with the likely need to replace it 'mid-life'.

 

[DXX]

This is really helpful info, thanks.

I have read in several places that the design vulnerability remains present on the 204ps engine (somehow suggesting it relates to the twin turbo design) but I haven't been able to find any reason why that should be the case if the EGR no longer includes the aluminium cooler.

Personally, I find this very reassuring given that my van has always used a little oil. My worst case imagining that I'm about to incur a bill for a whole new block seems less likely.

Given the relative robustness of the 204ps EGR (or at least that its failure does not lead to engine damage), it seems to me that an EGR delete is less of a priority provided you can live with the likely need to replace it 'mid-life'.

I own a 180ps, no issues at all, I monitor the oil with analysis, zero consumption between oil changes.

I believe that the 204ps issues are probably caused by poor oil quality caused by unburnt fuel from re-generations, excessive carbon due to leaking EGR valve combined with high boost pressure.
Once the oil control rings are fouled with carbon and can no longer flex the game is up.

 

[T6Andy]

I own a 180ps, no issues at all, I monitor the oil with analysis, zero consumption between oil changes.

I believe that the 204ps issues are probably caused by poor oil quality caused by unburnt fuel from re-generations, excessive carbon due to leaking EGR valve combined with high boost pressure.
Once the oil control rings are fouled with carbon and can no longer flex the game is up.

So if the dpf has clogged up at least once resulting in the need to have it cleaned out professionally would you be blocking and deleting the EGR on a 204 T6?

 

[Mike B]

A lot has been written on this and I've read it all. I thought it might be useful to try to summarise in one spot. I'll break this down into single statements and questions so it's easier to agree/disagree/answer. Please take a read and comment if you think any of this is incorrect.

1. The 204ps engine has a tendency to use a bit of oil. Not all examples, but apparently quite a few of them. This need not be a disaster. Just check your oil level from time to time and keep a litre of suitable oil in the back (after all, we've got plenty of space). 1 litre of oil per 10k miles seems pretty normal.

2. In some unfortunate instances, there is an issue with the EGR design that means some abrasive combustion by-products in the exhaust gas are allowed back into the engine via the EGR and can score the cylinders of the engine block. This can result in unacceptable oil consumption as oil can make it into the combustion chamber via these scratches in the cylinder walls. Worst case, this can require an engine replacement

3. Some people decide to 'delete' their EGR valve in order to remove the risk of engine block damage. Deletion involves physically removing and 'blanking' the valve itself and then updating the ECU programming so that it is unbothered by the lack of EGR signal. Mixed thoughts on this within the T6 community. Some worry it will result in MOT fails, others say it doesn't show up in an MOT test (provided the tester doesn't go looking for the mod).


Questions:

1. Local garages I have spoken to have said that the DPF must also be removed if the EGR is deleted. However, other people seem to say that this is not required and that the EGR can be deleted in isolation. Keen to hear of any experiences here either way

2. Could increased regularity of oil changes help here?

3. Do short journeys and driving at low revs exacerbate this problem (increased coking up of EGR)? I'm wondering if this would make a case for remapping a DSG gearbox.

Hi, I am considering purchasing my leased T32 4 motion highline, it's a 2018 with 63,000 on the clock. Although it's not due a service, I noticed when checking oil levels the oil was thick and heavy on the dipstick and slight emulsification at the filler cap (as well as some thick black residue) the VW garage says it's normal to have a little emulsification on the breather cap but said it needed a service, they also told me I should not be concerned about the EGR casi g problema as this only was relevant in older vans??
With all the chat about EGR problems I wondering if purchasing the vehicle is a good idea considering they're asking forecourt price for it. I am taking a sample of the oil out before the service and sending it for analysis but is there any way of knowing if the EGR Is going to be a problem?
Thanks in advance for any info

 

[RobertO2023]

Firstly get the car dealer to include a full service done- including DSG prior to purchase and make sure it has a service history.
I would also recommend buying a warranty - but check that any warranty you look at covers EGR related issues.( I once came across a warranty that Excluded EGR replacement- it’s not just VW that has the problem, but almost every other manufacturer.)

 

[Mike B]

Thanks for this, I have leased the van from new and have the full service history. Had oil analysis from Millers Oils and it came back no abnormal engine wear and no evidence of ERG corrosion. All this suggests the van is worth purchasing.
Are warranties available in 5 year old vans?

 

[RobertO2023]

That’s very good you that you know the van from new. Try Warrantywise. I have no connection with them but I have never had a problem with a couple of past claims put through them.

 

[FerrisBFW]

Thanks for this, I have leased the van from new and have the full service history. Had oil analysis from Millers Oils and it came back no abnormal engine wear and no evidence of ERG corrosion. All this suggests the van is worth purchasing.
Are warranties available in 5 year old vans?

be careful, my BiTDI 180 comes up good on the Miller's oil analysis and it drinks oil like no other knackered vehicle I have ever owned. It starts on the button, its fast and it does 35mpg +.

I was chatting to a guy the other day who had the same as my 4motion, dsg Caravelle on 40k miles, but a 204 and he was going through a litre in about 400 miles :-O! and same again it drove really well etc

 

[WinFreak]

a 204 and he was going through a litre in about 400 miles :-O! and same again it drove really well etc

Mine was like this, drove great right up to the moment the turbo went. After fitting a new set of turbos the oil consumption has improved lots so am hoping the engine is actually ok.... fingers crossed!

 

[RobertO2023]

Always worth having a compression test done to establish the condition of individual cylinders. Once the compression on a couple of cylinders is below the minimum it’s a ticking bomb!

 

[FerrisBFW]

See this is the thing with my BiTDI 180. 'I think' the compression is good. Getting a good reading has been very hit and miss - long story of way to short glowplug adapters, almost long enough but not perfect glowplug adapters etc but managed to get this reading on one and some not so effective reading on others. Since found out I should kill the injectors whilst doing this to stop fuel giving a false reading.

@WinFreak how did you know it was turbo/s issues? Was it oil in the IC?

 

[RobertO2023]

The main thing is you get readings on all cylinders - essential to get a true picture of the bores and piston rings and the differential between cylinder pressures. The new pressure should be 25-31 bar wear limit is 19 bar and diff between cylinders should no greater than 5 bar . Once below 12-15 bar the engine will run but will getting close to being below the compression ignition point

 

[WinFreak]

@WinFreak how did you know it was turbo/s issues? Was it oil in the IC?

The bearing or shaft on the small turbo went, you could hear the scraping in the housing and it lost power. Had the breakdown guy round here and he confirmed it straight away and towed me to the garage. They replaced the turbos (they come as one big pricy unit with both turbos on) and they cleaned the DPF while they were there.

Since then it's ran great and hasn't asked for oil yet which is good, but it's had ad blue issues so is now back with them to try and sort that out. Not sure they're actually giving it a lot of time because it's been weeks now.