Price of solar panels....

[Sackmycook]

How wedded to Hanchu are the installers? I'm asking as those Hanchu 5.12kWh batteries appear to be about £1900 ex vat whereas Fogstar (yes, the same Fogstar that do van batteries) do a 16kWh for about £1500 and a 32kWh for £2750 ex vat. Same for the inverter, you can get a Victron for less than that Hanchu by the look of it. I suspect the price of the backup functionality might go up here though, there's no equivalent to that Hanchu gateway so you'd need a few extra switches and the like I'd think. Your annual usage implies an average daily usage of around 14kWh so it would be nice if the batteries could at least see you through an average day.

It's going to come down to the installer though, if they install Hanchu all day long they're unlikely to want to deviate into something they're not familiar with.

Yes, I think they only do the Hanchu stuff and are getting a good deal off the supplier.
I've been investigating t'interweb and it seems the EV charger should not 'see' the batteries to stop battery drain when plugged in.
Yeah daily average is about 14kwh, but when you take out the EV usage (around 15-20% and not using washer/dryer, dishwasher etc in the event of a power cut, I reckon a 10.2kwh of battery should be fine in the event of a powercut.
Most of the big players don't cover my area and seem to be 2-5k more for a similar system

 

[Linoleum Bonypart]

I rest my case ..!!

 

[t0mb0]

Yes, I think they only do the Hanchu stuff and are getting a good deal off the supplier.
I've been investigating t'interweb and it seems the EV charger should not 'see' the batteries to stop battery drain when plugged in.
Yeah daily average is about 14kwh, but when you take out the EV usage (around 15-20% and not using washer/dryer, dishwasher etc in the event of a power cut, I reckon a 10.2kwh of battery should be fine in the event of a powercut.
Most of the big players don't cover my area and seem to be 2-5k more for a similar system

Fair enough, and yes I think with the EV I think it's just a case of positioning the current measuring clamp 'outside' of the EV supply such that the batteries don't 'see' the EV charge and so don't end up supplying it. In normal usage, assuming you've got the usual EV type electricity tariff which is ~7p/kWh overnight I think your electric should be effectively free during the summer when the solar is covering it and basically only ~7p/kWh over winter when your batteries mean you can time shift almost all of your usage to the overnight rate.

The only thing to consider with the power cut situation is you won't necessarily have the batteries fully charged when the cut occurs. You'll be fine over summer but in winter if the cut occurs in the evening then your batteries could be already pretty low, if the cut occurs in the morning then likely they are still pretty full from the overnight charge.

 

[Salty Spuds]

Yes, I think they only do the Hanchu stuff and are getting a good deal off the supplier.
I've been investigating t'interweb and it seems the EV charger should not 'see' the batteries to stop battery drain when plugged in.
Yeah daily average is about 14kwh, but when you take out the EV usage (around 15-20% and not using washer/dryer, dishwasher etc in the event of a power cut, I reckon a 10.2kwh of battery should be fine in the event of a powercut.
Most of the big players don't cover my area and seem to be 2-5k more for a similar system

"The Daughter's" system is on an Octopus tariff and has a couple of tricks for charging the EV. It can be set to only use surplus solar, so instead of exporting, the surplus goes into the car. They also get cheap night time rates, similar to the old Economy 7, so the EV and battery charge up between midnight & 7am at something like 8p/kWh. Overall, and counter intuitively, they are financially better off by selling their solar surplus during the day for 16p/kWh and buying it back at 8p/kWh at night. The app controlled system allows them to set certain thresholds for export/battery charging etc. which is quite clever and worlds away from our 14 year old 4kWp solar system. But we get 70p/kWh for ours, whether we export it or use it ourselves, so I ain't complaining

 

[t0mb0]

"The Daughter's" system is on an Octopus tariff and has a couple of tricks for charging the EV. It can be set to only use surplus solar, so instead of exporting, the surplus goes into the car. They also get cheap night time rates, similar to the old Economy 7, so the EV and battery charge up between midnight & 7am at something like 8p/kWh. Overall, and counter intuitively, they are financially better off by selling their solar surplus during the day for 16p/kWh and buying it back at 8p/kWh at night. The app controlled system allows them to set certain thresholds for export/battery charging etc. which is quite clever and worlds away from our 14 year old 4kWp solar system. But we get 70p/kWh for ours, whether we export it or use it ourselves, so I ain't complaining

70p/kWh!! You are truly the golden solar generation, we're getting more like 5p/kWh I think.

 

[Sackmycook]

Thanks, currently with Ovo but they have doubled their Charge Anytime from 7p/kwh to 14p/kwh. Looking at switching to Octopus but noticed they have cut their export from 15p to 12p kwh.

 

[t0mb0]

"The Daughter's" system is on an Octopus tariff and has a couple of tricks for charging the EV. It can be set to only use surplus solar, so instead of exporting, the surplus goes into the car. They also get cheap night time rates, similar to the old Economy 7, so the EV and battery charge up between midnight & 7am at something like 8p/kWh. Overall, and counter intuitively, they are financially better off by selling their solar surplus during the day for 16p/kWh and buying it back at 8p/kWh at night. The app controlled system allows them to set certain thresholds for export/battery charging etc. which is quite clever and worlds away from our 14 year old 4kWp solar system. But we get 70p/kWh for ours, whether we export it or use it ourselves, so I ain't complaining

Yeah, we have surplus solar going into the EV first, and then an immersion heater if the EV is full up. We're on Intelligent Octopus so you get cheap overnight but it also gives you random cheap slots during the day when you plug the EV in to charge - the nice thing about that is it can't tell what's actually going in the EV so the whole house is on cheap rates during those slots too (and if we had a battery you could set up logic to charge during those times too).

 

[Salty Spuds]

70p/kWh!! You are truly the golden solar generation, we're getting more like 5p/kWh I think.

Actually, I was mistaken, it isn't 70p/unit......

 

[Howzat]

"The Daughter's" system is on an Octopus tariff and has a couple of tricks for charging the EV. It can be set to only use surplus solar, so instead of exporting, the surplus goes into the car. They also get cheap night time rates, similar to the old Economy 7, so the EV and battery charge up between midnight & 7am at something like 8p/kWh. Overall, and counter intuitively, they are financially better off by selling their solar surplus during the day for 16p/kWh and buying it back at 8p/kWh at night. The app controlled system allows them to set certain thresholds for export/battery charging etc. which is quite clever and worlds away from our 14 year old 4kWp solar system. But we get 70p/kWh for ours, whether we export it or use it ourselves, so I ain't complaining

Exactly what I'm doing. I force the battery not to charge during the day so all solar gets goes to load and exported then at about 10:30pm I dump any remaining battery to export then charge it fully on the cheap rate between 12-6am. Costs me £1.30 per day (inc standing charge) to charge the 10.6Kw battery this way and I usually only need 4kw of sun per day along with exporting the remaining battery at night to be cost free. I'm quite low usage on electric (5-8kw per day) so Im actually making money with my 4.4kw solar over the year (mainly during summer) and that money pays for my years gas usage meaning electric and gas is all covered by the solar install. So long as the export rates stay as they are I'm paid up in 5 years and hoping for an additional 10 years (minimum) energy cost free.

 

[Salty Spuds]

Yeah, we have surplus solar going into the EV first, and then an immersion heater if the EV is full up. We're on Intelligent Octopus so you get cheap overnight but it also gives you random cheap slots during the day when you plug the EV in to charge - the nice thing about that is it can't tell what's actually going in the EV so the whole house is on cheap rates during those slots too (and if we had a battery you could set up logic to charge during those times too).

Exactly what I'm doing. I force the battery not to charge during the day so all solar gets goes to load and exported then at about 10:30pm I dump any remaining battery to export then charge it fully on the cheap rate between 12-6am. Costs me £1.30 per day (inc standing charge) to charge the 10.6Kw battery this way and I usually only need 4kw of sun per day along with exporting the remaining battery at night to be cost free. I'm quite low usage on electric (5-8kw per day) so Im actually making money with my 4.4kw solar over the year (mainly during summer) and that money pays for my years gas usage meaning electric and gas is all covered by the solar install. So long as the export rates stay as they are I'm paid up in 5 years and hoping for an additional 10 years (minimum) energy cost free.

The Daughter's system has a Sunsynk inverter. Sunsynk offer a monthly (currently £10/month) subscription service that will take over control of the inverter and use AI to constantly manage the import/export/charging etc. They claim to increase the yield to cover the subscription costs and some. I'm not convinced personally, as I like to know what's going on and not put it all in the hands of Skynet.

 

[t0mb0]

This stuff makes a lot of economic sense to retrofit but it's absolutely nuts it isn't more heavily mandated for new builds. The payback times there would be likely a couple of years given you're building from scratch anyway and not retro-fitting. Add that to heat pumps rather than gas boilers and there's no real reason any new house owner should be paying more than 7p/kWh or so for electric. As it is, you're saving a few thousand quid on the build and paying many times that every few years in bills...

 

[Howzat]

The Daughter's system has a Sunsynk inverter. Sunsynk offer a monthly (currently £10/month) subscription service that will take over control of the inverter and use AI to constantly manage the import/export/charging etc. They claim to increase the yield to cover the subscription costs and some. I'm not convinced personally, as I like to know what's going on and not put it all in the hands of Skynet.

Snap. But instead of using their AI im using home assistant (on a raspberry which is connected to the inverter via modbus) with automation triggers depending on solar load, grid load, battery % etc. Quite complex but once it's setup it just works, no monthly cost and is all run locally so no relying on external servers that can go down (especially sunsynk servers) or internet connectivity.

 

[Salty Spuds]

This stuff makes a lot of economic sense to retrofit but it's absolutely nuts it isn't more heavily mandated for new builds. The payback times there would be likely a couple of years given you're building from scratch anyway and not retro-fitting. Add that to heat pumps rather than gas boilers and there's no real reason any new house owner should be paying more than 7p/kWh or so for electric. As it is, you're saving a few thousand quid on the build and paying many times that every few years in bills...

Couldn't agree more. The aforementioned Daughter's house is a new build on an "Executive" estate, 5bed, 3.5 bath etc. I was shocked to find it had gas boiler, radiators (no underfloor heating), no solar, no EV charger etc. They've just paid for an EV charger and Solar as a retrofit. I'm no fan of heat pumps, but if you can't fit them and make them work in a new build, then why the feck are we having them foisted upon us to fit into older dwellings? If the government (of any flavour) wants us to switch to heat pumps, then the place to start is with the 1.5 million new homes they are banging on about, change the building regs. I was talking to a chap last week who renovated a 17th century lodge close to us. He fitted ground source heating, he says that on colder days they have to use extra electric heaters to keep warm. His monthly electricity direct debit is......... wait for it....brace yourself.........are you sitting down?????n £875/month, yup Eight Hundred and Seventy Five of your British pounds each month. I'll be sticking with the oil boiler and log burner.

 

[Sackmycook]

heat pumps rather than gas boilers and there's no real reason any new house owner should be paying more than 7p/kWh or so for electric.

Just had our rental cottage EPC reassessed as the Chief Advisor has been spooked by Rachel from Accounts and Millibund insisting all rental properties need to be C by 2030.
We have gone from 44/E to 59/D without doing anything, nothing more than different surveyors seeing things differently and assuming different things.
Interestingly, we can only get to 66/D with all the recommended improvements, including solar!
The surveyor says our place would get exempted as it's an unreachable target and apparently he is doing lots of exemptions up here in Northumberland.

He also noted that even though we have an A rated condensing boiler, with tvr radiators and Hive smart controls, he has to rate it as poor as that's what the algorithm chucks out due to being non-mains LPG. When I said 'what about heat pumps?' , he said not to bother as they are rated even worse !

 

[Salty Spuds]

Snap. But instead of using their AI im using home assistant (on a raspberry which is connected to the inverter via modbus) with automation triggers depending on solar load, grid load, battery % etc. Quite complex but once it's setup it just works, no monthly cost and is all run locally so no relying on external servers that can go down (especially sunsynk servers) or internet connectivity.

Very clever, is that something you’ve built or is it proprietary?

 

[Howzat]

Home assistant runs on the raspberry. Remember IFTT? (if that then this) It's like that. so "If something happens then do this".
Using HA to control my whole house, lights, boiler, blinds, alarm and solar to name a few.
It's strictly geek ware

 

[Salty Spuds]

Home assistant runs on the raspberry. Remember IFTT? (if that then this) It's like that. so "If something happens then do this".
Using HA to control my whole house, lights, boiler, blinds, alarm and solar to name a few.
It's strictly geek ware

sounds interesting. I use a Siemens Logo to control our heating which is a bit of a complex affair. Old legacy system with boiler and rads, newish extension with multiple underfloor zones. I wrote the program for the Logo and enjoyed the process. I like a gadget.

 

[t0mb0]

Home assistant runs on the raspberry. Remember IFTT? (if that then this) It's like that. so "If something happens then do this".
Using HA to control my whole house, lights, boiler, blinds, alarm and solar to name a few.
It's strictly geek ware

I have a love/hate relationship with HA, every time I work out how to do something clever I love it and every time it goes wrong in some impenetrable way I want to throw the whole thing out a window...

 

[t0mb0]

Couldn't agree more. The aforementioned Daughter's house is a new build on an "Executive" estate, 5bed, 3.5 bath etc. I was shocked to find it had gas boiler, radiators (no underfloor heating), no solar, no EV charger etc. They've just paid for an EV charger and Solar as a retrofit. I'm no fan of heat pumps, but if you can't fit them and make them work in a new build, then why the feck are we having them foisted upon us to fit into older dwellings? If the government (of any flavour) wants us to switch to heat pumps, then the place to start is with the 1.5 million new homes they are banging on about, change the building regs. I was talking to a chap last week who renovated a 17th century lodge close to us. He fitted ground source heating, he says that on colder days they have to use extra electric heaters to keep warm. His monthly electricity direct debit is......... wait for it....brace yourself.........are you sitting down?????n £875/month, yup Eight Hundred and Seventy Five of your British pounds each month. I'll be sticking with the oil boiler and log burner.

Yeah, heat pumps are suitable for many houses and not suitable for a few in terms of retrofit. If you've installed it and are then having to fall back on resistive heating though then kind of by definition it's installer error - either the installer has misspecified the system, mis-installed the system or they shouldn't have fitted it in the first place...

Arguably every single new build can use a heat pump though as there you have control over both heat loss and the emitters. Couple that with solar and batteries, and there's no technical reason for anything other than extremely low energy costs.

 

[cavester]

In your personal opinion
I personally think mines looks great
View attachment 317565View attachment 317566

Does look great, what panel is this please?