Having Hook Up Charge The Leisure Battery

[philhul]

Hi all,

Firstly apologies for asking something that has no doubt been asked before. I'm usually the kind of person that prefers to research subjects rather than just ask questions but as much as I read other threads, websites etc I can't quite get my head around campervan electrics, or to be honest electrics in general.

We bought a new conversion at the back end of last year. I'm using the lockdown as an opportunity to get to know it and based on the installation couldn't figure out how hook up would be charging the leisure battery. It turns out it won't. The conversion company has confirmed that the 12v and 240v systems are completely independent. Obviously that's no good as we'll run the leisure battery down in no time using the fridge, lights etc when parked up on a site for a few days.

What we do have is a Ring DC Charge 30 unit installed under the drivers seat. As I understand it this takes charge from the van battery while the engine is running and uses it to keep the leisure battery topped up. I can't quite see all of the sockets due to it being under the seat but looking at the instruction booklet I think only the solar ones will be spare at present so I can't get power from the hook up to go directly into it.

My questions are:
In order to enable leisure battery charging from the hook up do I need to buy an intelligent battery charger? If not then what?
Are there any particular ones for Campervan uses?
The intelligent chargers seem to come with a 3 pin plug for the mains. We have two 3 point sockets in the van. Do I need to add another hidden socket in a cupboard connected to the 240v system to be able to plug the intelligent charger in, then connect it to the battery?
Or can it be hard wired in?
Will the battery be ok with both the Ring unit and an intelligent charger connected to it at the same time?
And finally, have I got all of this completely wrong and there are different ways to do it?!

Sorry for the newbie questions and thanks for any help!

 

[BigDean]

Hi all,

Firstly apologies for asking something that has no doubt been asked before. I'm usually the kind of person that prefers to research subjects rather than just ask questions but as much as I read other threads, websites etc I can't quite get my head around campervan electrics, or to be honest electrics in general.

We bought a new conversion at the back end of last year. I'm using the lockdown as an opportunity to get to know it and based on the installation couldn't figure out how hook up would be charging the leisure battery. It turns out it won't. The conversion company has confirmed that the 12v and 240v systems are completely independent. Obviously that's no good as we'll run the leisure battery down in no time using the fridge, lights etc when parked up on a site for a few days.

What we do have is a Ring DC Charge 30 unit installed under the drivers seat. As I understand it this takes charge from the van battery while the engine is running and uses it to keep the leisure battery topped up. I can't quite see all of the sockets due to it being under the seat but looking at the instruction booklet I think only the solar ones will be spare at present so I can't get power from the hook up to go directly into it.

My questions are:
In order to enable leisure battery charging from the hook up do I need to buy an intelligent battery charger? If not then what?
Are there any particular ones for Campervan uses?
The intelligent chargers seem to come with a 3 pin plug for the mains. We have two 3 point sockets in the van. Do I need to add another hidden socket in a cupboard connected to the 240v system to be able to plug the intelligent charger in, then connect it to the battery?
Or can it be hard wired in?
Will the battery be ok with both the Ring unit and an intelligent charger connected to it at the same time?
And finally, have I got all of this completely wrong and there are different ways to do it?!

Sorry for the newbie questions and thanks for any help!

Welcome!

Just to clarify, you say that your EHU DOESN'T charge your leisure battery? Then what does it do? Just power the 230v sockets when on hook up? This would be very unusual for a camper conversion. I would be taking it back and asking them to do the job properly! Any EHU really should be wired to charge up your leisure battery.

 

[Big Al]

I agree with @BigDean. Tell us the name of the 240v Consumer Box. It’s usual for that box to power 240v and also charge battery. Can’t understand why they say yours doesn’t but yes.... take it back and say it’s not fit for purpose.

 

[philhul]

Thanks for the replies.

Correct - their response was that "not all campers are set up to charge the leisure battery when connected on a campsite. The 12v and 240v are two separate systems. An additional charger can be added to link the two if required".

I never thought to ask whether the EHU would charge the leisure battery and just assumed that it would. I'm sure they'll say that they gave no undertaking that it would but I'll ask.

Call me cynical but I can't imagine I'll get anywhere so any help on what I'll need to do to connect them would be appreciated. Van is reversed in the garage at the minute so I can't get the back doors open so I'll have to check when I can. From memory there is a fuse box. Is that what the consumer unit is?

 

[Phil_G]

As Dean says, most unusual. That would be a curious omission from a converter.
Do you have a pushbutton that tells you the leisure battery state? Similar to this?


If so, try this:
load the battery by putting all your internal lights on, fridge, etc, leave it a minute or two, then, keeping the button held, carefully watch the battery meter as someone else plugs in the hook-up cable. You should see the needle suddenly rise as the hook-up connects. If so, you have EHU charging.
Cheers
Phil

 

[Big Al]

Yes. Ours is a Sargent. I’d say to their reply, ‘but your the experts... why didn’t you ask what I require instead of fitting what you want?‘

 

[BigDean]

Name and shame them first of all. That is rubbish. Would be keen to know if they have ever converted a van before.....

You can charge the easy way by getting a relevant smart charger and wiring it in. I personally would want to understand how everything works as it clearly is not setup "standard". I appreciate everyone's "standard" could be different, but a camper system that has EHU that doesnt charge the leisure battery is a long way from standard. Not fit for purpose as above.

What type of leisure battery is it? Make and model would help.

 

[jimc91]

a cheaper option is to plug the fridge into the 240 system once on hook up, the fridge is the thing that will kill the battery. Your leisure battery with then supply the low power items such as light. This is what i do but my coolbox/fridge is not fitted into a cupboard so is easy to manually switch over from 12 to 240. I would also get a smart charger like a victron (loads of info on here about which charger) , you can use this to keep the batteries topped up over winter etc

 

[Mick]

That's amazing. What is the point of an EHU if it doesn't keep the leisure batteries topped up?

Is it a T6? if so I presume they have also fitted a DC - DC charger for the van to charge the leisure batteries on the move? Cos with the new Euro 6 charging standards you cant use the old relay system as I found out to my cost.

 

[jimc91]

That's amazing. What is the point of an EHU if it doesn't keep the leisure batteries topped up?

Is it a T6? if so I presume they have also fitted a DC - DC charger for the van to charge the leisure batteries on the move? Cos with the new Euro 6 charging standards you cant use the old relay system as I found out to my cost.

the op said " What we do have is a Ring DC Charge 30 unit installed under the drivers seat. As I understand it this takes charge from the van battery while the engine is running and uses it to keep the leisure battery topped up" so I think he does but it is nonsense they haven't put a charger in for the LBs if thats what he wanted

 

[Mick]

Thanks Jim - i've no idea what a Ring DC 30 charger is. if its a Dc-Dc charger then fine. However if this company don't think it's standard to fit an EHU charging system I wouldn't be trusting them to fit a DC - DC charger as a standard either.

 

[JOG]

I wouldn’t trust these converters with anything!

 

[Jollyvan]

The Ring unit is a perfectly good (although somewhat out dated) DC-DC unit but it will only charge the leisure battery from the van battery or solar. You will as everyone confirms need some sort of 240v charger for when on EHU. We really need a photo of your set up.

 

[Mick]

I wouldn’t trust these converters with anything!

Ditto. I had my own travails with my conversion. It wasn't until we had a weekend away with the forum that a couple of lads said 'That's just not right'. So I took it to @travelvolts, Martyn shook his head - again at a converter fitting a relay that was burning out and sorted it out.

I haven't looked back.

 

[Phil_G]

Steady on chaps, its a bit much to condemn a converter just because the deal didnt include a mains charger.
A camper without any hook up facility at all is still a perfectly usable camper, so to declare one with hookup but no charger as 'unfit for purpose' is a bit much. Its unusual, but then a charger is a huge compromise anyway - smart chargers are confused by widely varying loads and some 12v fitments might not be happy with a 14.6v absorption phase. Hence many converters use a 13.8v fixed PSU, more suited to 12v living but less ideal from the charging point of view. Its a huge compromise that this converter has addressed by not fitting one. Unusual, but it doesnt make the van unfit for its intended purpose of camping. Its really not a huge deal, its a box with battery and mains connections, easily added if required.
Cheers
Phil

 

[N1ck]

Sorry but I’m not with you guys on the charging bit as being standard, yes it makes sense to incorporate it into a conversion but it’s not a given, a lot of the older vans don’t have it, when I converted my van I didn’t initially fit a maims charger but did have hook up for the 240v sockets if I wanted to use a fan heater, toaster, kettle etc, the solar Panel keeps my battery charged the fridge will run for days on that with no issues, I did stick a cheap battery charger in the other week tho
to the op if it doesn’t have a charger then yes you’ll need to get something that will automatically charge the leisure when plugged in or get a solar panel fitted ?

 

[JOG]

I think the real contention is that no mention was made of a charger from EHU for the leisure battery at the time of converting!

 

[philhul]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I don't want to name as once bad publicity is out there it can't be undone and as above there are differing opinions on whether they've done anything wrong or not! I'm only disappointed because I assumed EHU would always charge a leisure battery but maybe that's my ignorance on the subject and I should have done more research before buying.

The leisure battery is "Dynamic Dual Purpose 110ah". The consumer unit is made by Gacia but I can't make out a model until I get the van out of the garage. It has three switches on it. Two are next to each other which I assume is for each of the 3 pin sockets, then the other is a master switch? Sorry, my electrical knowledge is near to zero.

I am looking at a Victron IP22 which is suitable for batteries with a capacity in the range of 75-120ah so I assume will do the job. I'll need an auto electrician to install it.

Can I have that connected to the leisure battery as well as the Ring DC Charge 30?

Thanks

 

[BigDean]

@philhul Victron is a good brand.

 

[Phil_G]

Yes, all three charge sources, ie hook-up charger, B2B and solar, all connect to the battery, effectively all three are wired in parallel.
Look in the back of your cupboards, wardrobe and nooks & crannies, your converter may have fitted a hidden mains socket in preparation for a charger.
If so you dont need an electrician, just plug in the Victron, and connect it to the battery.