ah . . . Julien lLett on YT - I've followed him before . . .
lets see what he says.
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lets see what he says.
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Can I use a DC to DC charger to provide higher voltages to DC charger? (aka using an all-in-one solar generator in a van install)
- Thread starter Andysmee
- Start date
That is awesome... gives you a run for your money, @Dellmassive !
A couple of things in contrast to the all powers... the cigarette lighter socket is regulated on this and the 3A are not (voltage drops as battery discharges). The depth of discharge/point at which the protection kicks in is 90% so nominally equivalent to a 29.4Ah 12V leisure battery. And the usb banks are separately capable of 5A @ 5V, and the varying ampage markings on the usb ports don't mean anything.
That's excellent. Interesting that the jump leads give direct access to the cells!
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The AC PSU is giving 55-56W input according to the pack (and maths would say 58.8W max, not 70W or have I missed something there?)
The DC at 24V you've assumed a 2A limit? Could it not pull the 2.45A required to reach the same 58.8W? On the 12V side, a switched 5A feed from the fuse box sounds doable.
Which route tends to have the least losses? My gut says the step up DC-DC, not the DC-AC-DC
i was just quoting the book stats . which say 70W
How to charge PS5?
1 - From AC wall charger (70W) 8 hours
2 - From DC car charger only 24V (48W)
3 - From solar charger (120W) 5 hours
but as you point out the PSU clearly shows 29.4v@2A which is 58.8w (w=v*a)
so no you haven't missed anything . . . its just them smudging the numbers. 58.8w from the PSU. But maybe the DC input port has a MAX capacity of 70W? - maybe 70W with a 40V input voltage?
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my take on that was:
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A 12v to 24c step up dc-dc and use that 24v dc direct into the charge port.
30v @ 2a
15v @ 4a
7v @ 8a
So I'm thinking at 24v dc it will draw about 3A ish? Ie 60w.... so until the 12v side it will draw around 5A (60w)
Losses and efficiency not calculated.
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basically as you say, the current draw will be determined from the box. - if the box can pull the 60w via the car/adapter port. .?
if you have DC-DC ( so 12vdc stepped up to 24vdc) the we assume that the 24vdc will be at the CAR port.
BUT . . . you may be able to go up to 40V on that port? - the spec is not clear enough?
but based on dc-dc 12/24vdc . . . . .
at 24vdc (output side od dc-dc) @ 60w draw would be 2.5A (a=w/v)
that would translate to the 12v (inputside of dc-dc) - 60w /12 = 5A
(Losses and efficiency not calculated.)
so yes 5A draw on the 12v side . . . .
but it depends on the dc-dc . . . . you will have to test it.
remember the voltage from the fuse IGN tap will vary wildly from 12v - 15v as you drive - can the dc-dc deal with 12v-15v input?
will the24v side output of the dc-dc be affected by the input volatge? - or is it regulated at 24vdc ? (or will it swing 24v - 36v?)
if its regulated, then that internal circuit will generate heat? - how much?
in the example : DC 12v to 24v Converter 15A 360W, Heavy Duty Step Up: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics
the specs state:
input: DC 9-20V (so volt swings from regen braking should be ok)
output: DC 24V; - Max Current 15A 360W (this implies a regulated output)
protection function, overcurrent, short circuit, overtemperature, waterproof, moistureproof(Built-in over-voltage, under-voltage, overload, over-heat and short circuit protection.)
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if you up for a bit of Mcguivering , then get one of these 12/24 dc-dc and start testing.
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if you want an easy plug -n- play option then go for the inverter
Yeah, the reason they fudge the numbers, given that both inputs are the same port, can only be the difference between 29V from PSU vs 12v(14V+) from the cigarette lighter. So, there's a relationship between voltage and ability to draw power. Other packs don't separate the solar input from the AC and DC inputs, and the manual says not to use AC charging when solar charging, presumably because they are actually the same port behind the panel.
Quid pro quo, we could push 40V through the jack port and get 120W of charging going. Hence the ideal is a 12V to 36V step up and hope to pull ~10A from the alternator and deliver 100W+ charging akin to a solar panel.
Out of interest, in a normal leisure install, what does a DC-DC charger deliver in terms of amps when peak charging of a flat leisure battery?
Quid pro quo, we could push 40V through the jack port and get 120W of charging going. Hence the ideal is a 12V to 36V step up and hope to pull ~10A from the alternator and deliver 100W+ charging akin to a solar panel.
Out of interest, in a normal leisure install, what does a DC-DC charger deliver in terms of amps when peak charging of a flat leisure battery?
if lithium . . then 100% available capacity through put of the dc-dc.
so 50A with the Renogy and Redarc DC-DC
30A with Victron Orion
or 25A with the Ctek.
etc etc .
AGM / SLA types have higher internal resistance so will peak at the start and then reduce as time goes on...
10-20% capacity charge rate is recommended for SLA so 10-20A for a 110ah battery.
Lithium will just suck up everything . . . upto say 1C - they will take 50-100A easy ( Thats why they will blow Alternators if not DC-DC is fitted and burn out SCR`s)
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My current seat build the 110Ah Loach extreme SLA with a 50A Renogy DC-DC, it will normally pull 25A then start to drop as the charge increases
so 50A with the Renogy and Redarc DC-DC
30A with Victron Orion
or 25A with the Ctek.
etc etc .
AGM / SLA types have higher internal resistance so will peak at the start and then reduce as time goes on...
10-20% capacity charge rate is recommended for SLA so 10-20A for a 110ah battery.
Lithium will just suck up everything . . . upto say 1C - they will take 50-100A easy ( Thats why they will blow Alternators if not DC-DC is fitted and burn out SCR`s)
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My current seat build the 110Ah Loach extreme SLA with a 50A Renogy DC-DC, it will normally pull 25A then start to drop as the charge increases
Mine too. It's a question of how fast?
@AK06FR : the specs below say different: they look the same as the Ps5 ?
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car: 24v ok cant charge on 12v ( 14 - 40 v ? )
mains : 90w 6-7hrs
solar : DC14-40W / 120W
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PowerOAk - PS6S
poweroak.co.uk
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car: 24v ok cant charge on 12v ( 14 - 40 v ? )
mains : 90w 6-7hrs
solar : DC14-40W / 120W
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PowerOAk - PS6S
PowerOak | Powerbanks, solar panels, and power units
Discover the future of portable energy with PowerOak. Explore our high-performance powerbanks, efficient solar panels, and versatile power units for all your charging needs, whether on the go or at home.
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I think that could even be a typo in both manuals, more likely can't be charged if 12V, can be charged if 14V. But identical charging electronics me thinks.
They seem to add tax to the inc tax price at checkout.
They seem to add tax to the inc tax price at checkout.
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yeh typo possibly . . .so 14v / 45W would be 12-14hrs to charge.?
also dont forget when the starter battery is fully charged the "Energy management system" drops the alternator voltage to 12.3v / 12.6v (float) (below the 14v you need)
so when that happens you may need to turn on some power hungry Van electrics to kick the alternator into charge mode which will increase the system voltage above 14v.
The ALLPOWERS is around 60W charge rate via USB-C PD . . . but will still take all day to charge up from flat. even the solar will take all day.
also dont forget when the starter battery is fully charged the "Energy management system" drops the alternator voltage to 12.3v / 12.6v (float) (below the 14v you need)
so when that happens you may need to turn on some power hungry Van electrics to kick the alternator into charge mode which will increase the system voltage above 14v.
The ALLPOWERS is around 60W charge rate via USB-C PD . . . but will still take all day to charge up from flat. even the solar will take all day.
That ain't a problem if it's on the roof, that's the direction I'm going
hold on . . . just watched that clip !!
its Gadget John !! or now "John and Mandy on tour"
hhhmmmmmmm . . . . . . . . . . "scratching my chin"
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its Gadget John !! or now "John and Mandy on tour"
hhhmmmmmmm . . . . . . . . . . "scratching my chin"
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Sunny forecast next week in the South of France so looking forward to testing the solar panels
@Dellmassive yes I saw that video too. Different brand but I think its just a re branded PowerOak
@Dellmassive yes I saw that video too. Different brand but I think its just a re branded PowerOak
more info :
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PS5B:
AC50 / PS6S ?
PS8 / EB150
AC50 / PS6S ?
PS8 / EB150
Oh interested to see if the PS6S will charge my Sonos Move Move: A Portable WiFi + Bluetooth Speaker | Sonos With the exception of the supplied charging base and my office Dell monitor I can't find a USB-C PD PSU that works with it.
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German Amazon info . . . available in blue and orange.
5.0 out of 5 stars good power pack with small, partly incomprehensible, drawbacks.
Reviewed in Germany on March 24, 2020
Right from the start, I mentioned the majority in my video review. What I noticed afterwards, however, during longer use, I summarize briefly here:
- ATTENTION: Solar MC4 connections labeling (apparently) wrong! Plus and minus swapped!
- ATTENTION: The 12V car socket has a very high tolerance range (see operating instructions), unfortunately this means that end devices such as compressor coolers cause an error with "undervoltage". The PowerOak AC50 is suitable for those who only want to connect "undemanding" devices to the 12V socket.
- Occasionally it happens that the PowerOak displays the error E27. This means that it goes into failure mode because it thinks the device is drawing too much power. To do this, it is helpful to "boot up the terminal slowly" if possible. So, for example, don't set cool boxes to -20 ° C straight away, start at room temperature, plug in and only then turn the temperature down.
- The USB-C socket is a bit weak on the chest. My Macbook Pro 16 "only gets 36W and goes into a kind of" trickle charge "during use. That means" Not charging "is displayed at the top of the battery bar. If you close the Macbook, however, the battery is charged with 36W Which, however, takes a very long time, so you have to consider whether it makes more sense to use the 230V socket for this purpose and to accept any losses caused by converting 12V-230V-19V.
- There is actually an MPPT controller installed as it is in the instructions, but what I don't understand: I connected my solar panels in series, but only had half the power as a result? So about 25W. Connected in parallel they brought 50W. I am a trained electronics technician and know that the performance should NOT change, only the voltage / current ratio.
So if you operate the Oak with solar, then you prefer to switch several 12V panels in parallel. I cannot say whether it is just a display error from the PowerOak, or whether it actually only charges at half power.
If you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message!
5.0 out of 5 stars good power pack with small, partly incomprehensible, drawbacks.
Reviewed in Germany on March 24, 2020
Right from the start, I mentioned the majority in my video review. What I noticed afterwards, however, during longer use, I summarize briefly here:
- ATTENTION: Solar MC4 connections labeling (apparently) wrong! Plus and minus swapped!
- ATTENTION: The 12V car socket has a very high tolerance range (see operating instructions), unfortunately this means that end devices such as compressor coolers cause an error with "undervoltage". The PowerOak AC50 is suitable for those who only want to connect "undemanding" devices to the 12V socket.
- Occasionally it happens that the PowerOak displays the error E27. This means that it goes into failure mode because it thinks the device is drawing too much power. To do this, it is helpful to "boot up the terminal slowly" if possible. So, for example, don't set cool boxes to -20 ° C straight away, start at room temperature, plug in and only then turn the temperature down.
- The USB-C socket is a bit weak on the chest. My Macbook Pro 16 "only gets 36W and goes into a kind of" trickle charge "during use. That means" Not charging "is displayed at the top of the battery bar. If you close the Macbook, however, the battery is charged with 36W Which, however, takes a very long time, so you have to consider whether it makes more sense to use the 230V socket for this purpose and to accept any losses caused by converting 12V-230V-19V.
- There is actually an MPPT controller installed as it is in the instructions, but what I don't understand: I connected my solar panels in series, but only had half the power as a result? So about 25W. Connected in parallel they brought 50W. I am a trained electronics technician and know that the performance should NOT change, only the voltage / current ratio.
So if you operate the Oak with solar, then you prefer to switch several 12V panels in parallel. I cannot say whether it is just a display error from the PowerOak, or whether it actually only charges at half power.
If you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message!
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