Another Main Dealer Tale of Woe

[Raggerty]

I use Vindis in Northampton. I work in the town so works for me. They have always been spot on whenever I have dealt with them. I am local to Coventry but hear so many stories about Listers it put me right off using them.

I bought a Caravelle from Vindis and had an issue with 2 alloys whilst just inside warranty…deadly white worm. I took it in and they looked at the issue and notated the failings with a view to sending to VW for a decision…very negatively I might add! I waited for around 6 weeks and after no communication chasing them for a response, ending with an email which was never replied to or even acknowledged, so just gave up. Looking at a new motorhome as a replacement shortly, and guess what they wont be getting…a call to quote. I can deal with many things but pure ignorance wont wash with me.

 

[Hilly64]

Van back in

Head Unit became unresponsive a couple of times within a week of picking it up. they promised me that if I had further problems they would replace but needed it back to check if any further TPIs or software updates. So back in and they are now saying they can't get it to fault .... it is intermittent you clowns!!
I have sent them videos of the screen and what isn't working but that seems to cut no ice. they are saying it has to fault while they have it even though they have twice confirmed it was faulty WTF. Can't remember seeing any small print in T&Cs re how you demonstrate a fault and what really winds me up is that it is a known issue.

To add insult to injury I have waited two months, been cancelled once due to them being too busy, had a promise they would look at it straight away and now five days in and all they seem to have done is pressed buttons.

EML, P20EE and SCR again, by coincidence had the usual EML issue. That's two years and half a dozen visits and still no fix. frequency getting less. Just dread ringing them and listening to their total BS. Now talking worst case scenario new engine, never heard so much crap in my life. Surely you would start by replacing the Adblue unit? Again it is intermittent.

So a Warranty which doesn't do what it says on the tin. What also annoys me is that they aren't even engaging with the underwriters and almost acting as warranty police, what's in it for them I wonder? Why would they not just accept the work and get sign off from VWFS

seems a war of attrition

 

[Hilly64]

Van back out!

after over a week of very little progress I have had enough, probably had around an hour of attention in that time so just asked for the van back.

I strongly believe the dealership has very few mechanics or "master techs" as they are now referred to. Judging by the baked on bird poo all over the roof I also suspect it has been parked under trees in their service yard for most of that time which is annoying having been promised the van would be prioritised as I had been waiting two months and been cancelled previously

Head Unit - Wont replace unless it faults whilst with them. Can't remember that in the T&Cs. They have diagnosed it being faulty twice and miraculously repaired when I had lost patience with them having had the van in for over two weeks for minor issues. I have sent video evidence of the fault returning soon after I got it back, which they say is not acceptable. I have also asked for evidence from them that it was fixed but they can't provide that either. This is where it gets interesting VW Customer Care have suggested as a goodwill gesture I pay £600, the dealer contributes £600 and they will ask the original retailer up in Scotland to contribute £600. what it has to do with the latter two parties I don't know and just seems bizarre ..... and VW Warranty pay £0

EML, P20EE and SCR again - more of the same scripted tests and TPIs and still no conclusion or fix. So basically after nearly 2 years and half dozen visits for the same fault they still cannot fix the problem!!!

You have to laugh at the next bit - so whilst on a test run one of the wind deflectors "flew off". Been on there for 2 years never moved? TBF I now have a free new set of OEM VW deflectors which are pretty good and a slightly nicer grey tint than the old ones, they were in a box in the back of the van as no "master tech" available to fit them.
And to top it all when I got home I noticed the the under vehicle engine tray was missing which I assume had not "also flew off" when on the test run? still waiting for dealer to confirm if they have located it in the corner of the workshop somewhere. How incompetent can this get?

So tale of woe most definitely and thinking I now need to consider if there is any legal route I can go down to force VW's hand and get stuff done. How any business can treat customers in this way is beyond my comprehension.

 

[Sasquatch]

Van back out!

after over a week of very little progress I have had enough, probably had around an hour of attention in that time so just asked for the van back.

I strongly believe the dealership has very few mechanics or "master techs" as they are now referred to. Judging by the baked on bird poo all over the roof I also suspect it has been parked under trees in their service yard for most of that time which is annoying having been promised the van would be prioritised as I had been waiting two months and been cancelled previously

Head Unit - Wont replace unless it faults whilst with them. Can't remember that in the T&Cs. They have diagnosed it being faulty twice and miraculously repaired when I had lost patience with them having had the van in for over two weeks for minor issues. I have sent video evidence of the fault returning soon after I got it back, which they say is not acceptable. I have also asked for evidence from them that it was fixed but they can't provide that either. This is where it gets interesting VW Customer Care have suggested as a goodwill gesture I pay £600, the dealer contributes £600 and they will ask the original retailer up in Scotland to contribute £600. what it has to do with the latter two parties I don't know and just seems bizarre ..... and VW Warranty pay £0

EML, P20EE and SCR again - more of the same scripted tests and TPIs and still no conclusion or fix. So basically after nearly 2 years and half dozen visits for the same fault they still cannot fix the problem!!!

You have to laugh at the next bit - so whilst on a test run one of the wind deflectors "flew off". Been on there for 2 years never moved? TBF I now have a free new set of OEM VW deflectors which are pretty good and a slightly nicer grey tint than the old ones, they were in a box in the back of the van as no "master tech" available to fit them.
And to top it all when I got home I noticed the the under vehicle engine tray was missing which I assume had not "also flew off" when on the test run? still waiting for dealer to confirm if they have located it in the corner of the workshop somewhere. How incompetent can this get?

So tale of woe most definitely and thinking I now need to consider if there is any legal route I can go down to force VW's hand and get stuff done. How any business can treat customers in this way is beyond my comprehension.

Are they the supplying dealer? If so consumer law lays responsibility at their door, not VWs, and gives you tapered protection out to 6 years. I'd be firing up the pooter and would be emailing the small claims court forms to their CEO with a deadline to resolve this by X date else you'll be submitting them.

 

[Hilly64]

Are they the supplying dealer? If so consumer law lays responsibility at their door, not VWs, and gives you tapered protection out to 6 years. I'd be firing up the pooter and would be emailing the small claims court forms to their CEO with a deadline to resolve this by X date else you'll be submitting them.

Unfortunately not. I brought privately with All in Warranty and naively thinking this would give me cover and peace of mind as advertised in the sales blurb. Given the problems thought be good idea to extend for final two years.

It is a shame as apart from the SCR issue and very poor customer service I love the van, so very frustrating

Some have said that the whole SCR system is so fickle it may never get to a resolution

Small claims may be the ultimate destination unfortunately

 

[Sasquatch]

Small claims may be viable against the warranty underwriter, dependent upon the small print. You've provided reasonable evidence of the fault and if software isn't fixing it then a new unit is required.

 

[andydubz]

VW VAN CENTRE Cardiff are the worst I’ve ever dealt with,a real nice introduction to these kinds of bull shit artist,glad my warranty is well and truly finished…

Not surprised. I've never had a good experience there. I've actually booked in with VW Swansea next month and they've already given me a 100% better experience. I phoned, they answered. Took notes, said someone will call me back. Someone actually called me back within the hour, relayed all my notes and booked me in.

Cardiff on the other hand... can't get through to them on the phone. I turned up in person to ask a question about a problem, waited 40 minutes to be told they'll have to call me back. Guess what? They never called me back.

 

[mondray]

Take out your head unit and plug it into the 240v mains. They will replace it then.

 

[Phil_j89]

With regards to your SCR / P20EE - Have you had the update carried out to the engine ECU?

If you have, then the next port of call for the dealer should be:
Check the EGR flow rate using a specific test plan (EGR will require a flush if this is outside the VW tolerance) , Replace No.3 glow plug (with combustion pressure sensor built in) then carry out a service regen of the DPF.

If they aren't / haven't done this, then they aren't following the correct VW 'path' regards to repair.

The other thing to note with regards to an P20EE code, is what your average MPG looks like. Are you light on the accelerator? High MPG's? The adblue injector works more with a slightly 'heavier' right foot, which tends to reduce the crystallisation on the injector nozzle itself.
We see more SCR / adblue issues on vehicles that are driven to mpg figures, rather than just used (like work vans etc)

 

[Hilly64]

With regards to your SCR / P20EE - Have you had the update carried out to the engine ECU?

If you have, then the next port of call for the dealer should be:
Check the EGR flow rate using a specific test plan (EGR will require a flush if this is outside the VW tolerance) , Replace No.3 glow plug (with combustion pressure sensor built in) then carry out a service regen of the DPF.

If they aren't / haven't done this, then they aren't following the correct VW 'path' regards to repair.

The other thing to note with regards to an P20EE code, is what your average MPG looks like. Are you light on the accelerator? High MPG's? The adblue injector works more with a slightly 'heavier' right foot, which tends to reduce the crystallisation on the injector nozzle itself.
We see more SCR / adblue issues on vehicles that are driven to mpg figures, rather than just used (like work vans etc)

Interested in your last comment

I have had the EML light issue now for two years on and off. Had 6 visits to dealership and they run TPIs. Had new software, glow plug 3, air pipe to turbo replaced, multiple DPF force regens (all data from last visit which I sneakily screen shot suggests soot and EGR are all ok).

On the last visit they say they cant find the issue and nowhere left to go. Always the P20ee and 31103 SCR Bank 1 efficiency. Now with customer complaints as getting ridiculous they cant fix after multiple attempts. Under warranty but they seem reluctant to replace parts

Light on in June and July. They again couldn’t find a fault so deleted error did a 100 mile test drive and said “there you go sorted”. When leaving I sarcastically said see you in a couple of weeks. Early September light back on.

Specifically the light only comes on when on a long run 100 mile plus and not every run. Generally this is whilst running at 70mph, under adaptive cruise at around 2000rpm. No change in performance

There has to be something happening under these conditions?

MPG wise sometimes these trips return 40+ MPG sometimes 44 but then on others, which feel like very similar conditions, can be 36 ish

I am so frustrated at the lack of technical nouse to sort the issue, costing me time and money and the dealership no doubt. They are now offering to raise a technical enquiry which I think means logging onto a VW portal which they have done before and they want the van back again for fault codes even though they have down loads on multiple occasions. Interestingly they can tell me exactly what speed I was doing and all conditions when the error was triggered but not date.

I my head I would be replacing the key SCR components as a starting point including NOX sensor but my logic maybe misplaced

 

[kipperman]

Interested in your last comment

I have had the EML light issue now for two years on and off. Had 6 visits to dealership and they run TPIs. Had new software, glow plug 3, air pipe to turbo replaced, multiple DPF force regens (all data from last visit which I sneakily screen shot suggests soot and EGR are all ok).

On the last visit they say they cant find the issue and nowhere left to go. Always the P20ee and 31103 SCR Bank 1 efficiency. Now with customer complaints as getting ridiculous they cant fix after multiple attempts. Under warranty but they seem reluctant to replace parts

Light on in June and July. They again couldn’t find a fault so deleted error did a 100 mile test drive and said “there you go sorted”. When leaving I sarcastically said see you in a couple of weeks. Early September light back on.

Specifically the light only comes on when on a long run 100 mile plus and not every run. Generally this is whilst running at 70mph, under adaptive cruise at around 2000rpm. No change in performance

There has to be something happening under these conditions?

MPG wise sometimes these trips return 40+ MPG sometimes 44 but then on others, which feel like very similar conditions, can be 36 ish

I am so frustrated at the lack of technical nouse to sort the issue, costing me time and money and the dealership no doubt. They are now offering to raise a technical enquiry which I think means logging onto a VW portal which they have done before and they want the van back again for fault codes even though they have down loads on multiple occasions. Interestingly they can tell me exactly what speed I was doing and all conditions when the error was triggered but not date.

I my head I would be replacing the key SCR components as a starting point including NOX sensor but my logic maybe mispla

Whilst I totally understand that this shouldn’t happen, we lived with this same symptom (PO20ee) occasionally popping up- and like you say ACC engaged and motorway cruising. Bought cheapo code reader and reset as necessary. YMMV though

 

[Hilly64]

Whilst I totally understand that this shouldn’t happen, we lived with this same symptom (PO20ee) occasionally popping up- and like you say ACC engaged and motorway cruising. Bought cheapo code reader and reset as necessary. YMMV though

Not just me then lol. Think I have seen a few post with similar issue but many of these vehicles out there and appears not overly common
I could and I have reset in the past but ultimately I have a warranty which is ending next year so pushing for it to get fixed feel I may need to give them a clue

 

[DXX]

If it can’t be fixed with a laptop it can’t be fixed!

 

[Phil_j89]

Raising a technical enquiry through a ‘DISS’ just means they’ll get in touch with the technical ‘team’ at Milton Keynes who will assist with were to go next.

That might be Nox sensor / injector related like you say. Sometimes depends on who you get on the other end, in reply to a technical enquiry.

 

[Hilly64]

Raising a technical enquiry through a ‘DISS’ just means they’ll get in touch with the technical ‘team’ at Milton Keynes who will assist with were to go next.

That might be Nox sensor / injector related like you say. Sometimes depends on who you get on the other end, in reply to a technical enquiry.

Baffles me why after 6 visits this has not been done already. They did mention last time something about posting on a technical forum ? Even the VW assist guys said they have super techs based out of Milton Keynes that can get involved if necessary but as stated depends who you get.

I also had one service manager about a year ago wanting a blank cheque from me for £1,000 to pursue further investigation work and indicating the problem might be related to the inlet manifold. I suspect they would find soot deposits, blame that and I would not be covered under the all in warranty so could see where that one was going. Even said you may need a new engine wtaf

I recall a member on here having a similar issue in the Netherlands and VW suggested it may have been an issue with a sensor, possibly NOX, not getting hot enough on a steady run to clear itself …. How accurate that is I don’t know

 

[Hilly64]

Van back out!

after over a week of very little progress I have had enough, probably had around an hour of attention in that time so just asked for the van back.

I strongly believe the dealership has very few mechanics or "master techs" as they are now referred to. Judging by the baked on bird poo all over the roof I also suspect it has been parked under trees in their service yard for most of that time which is annoying having been promised the van would be prioritised as I had been waiting two months and been cancelled previously

Head Unit - Wont replace unless it faults whilst with them. Can't remember that in the T&Cs. They have diagnosed it being faulty twice and miraculously repaired when I had lost patience with them having had the van in for over two weeks for minor issues. I have sent video evidence of the fault returning soon after I got it back, which they say is not acceptable. I have also asked for evidence from them that it was fixed but they can't provide that either. This is where it gets interesting VW Customer Care have suggested as a goodwill gesture I pay £600, the dealer contributes £600 and they will ask the original retailer up in Scotland to contribute £600. what it has to do with the latter two parties I don't know and just seems bizarre ..... and VW Warranty pay £0

EML, P20EE and SCR again - more of the same scripted tests and TPIs and still no conclusion or fix. So basically after nearly 2 years and half dozen visits for the same fault they still cannot fix the problem!!!

You have to laugh at the next bit - so whilst on a test run one of the wind deflectors "flew off". Been on there for 2 years never moved? TBF I now have a free new set of OEM VW deflectors which are pretty good and a slightly nicer grey tint than the old ones, they were in a box in the back of the van as no "master tech" available to fit them.
And to top it all when I got home I noticed the the under vehicle engine tray was missing which I assume had not "also flew off" when on the test run? still waiting for dealer to confirm if they have located it in the corner of the workshop somewhere. How incompetent can this get?

So tale of woe most definitely and thinking I now need to consider if there is any legal route I can go down to force VW's hand and get stuff done. How any business can treat customers in this way is beyond my comprehension.

still on my continued quest to get VW to resolve the EML SCR reductanct issue

again no faults found!!!

The technicians assured me that this time they had been in touch with Milton Keynes Head Office and to my suprise the dealership told me today they have updated the software in an attempt to find a fix as each and every time it goes in they cannot find a fault.

they said it is J623 control unit update but sure this was done a couple years ago when first got issues and was given the adblue free refill voucher sheet

anyone know if there is a new and improved version of the software?

one again went in with EML lit, came on driving to dealership, same response "can't find a fault with anything and done a road test .... bla bla" despite a cast iron assurance they would get it fixed this time , oh my misplaced optimism!

get van back and low and behold they have road tested for 24 miles which doesnt make sense given they know it normally triggers on long run. Complete waste of time

Intersestingly they did skirt around possible NOX sensor issue but they aint going to find that on a 20 mile test drive x 2 technicians. I cannot understand why they can't start replacing key components starting with the NOX sensor, can't be that many components associated with the system. Costing me time and expense which must be small to what it is costing the dealership and trying to be fair to them they seem to have their hands tied by VW. back to VW Customer Serices again

On the plus side the head unit faulted again on way to dealership so left van running dragged the service bod out of his office to view. so now he has seen it, videod it (I had sent numerous videos) and witnessed it they have agreed to replace under warranty .... shouldnt be this difficult surely? Got to wait now as unit is on back order so they say.

 

[Sasquatch]

Thars a good point - theyre happy to fire the random parts cannon at rhe customers expense, but aren't so keen when the importer are footing the bill.

Time to take legal advice?

 

[Hilly64]

Thars a good point - theyre happy to fire the random parts cannon at rhe customers expense, but aren't so keen when the importer are footing the bill.

Time to take legal advice?

I think you might be right, when I mentioned this the dealership repsonded by saying if I go down that route they would no longer deal with or speak to me which is fine as fed up dealing with them and their BS tbf .

the difficulty is what do I want from going down the legal route. One would think if the dealers and head office can't fix then who can? So do you then look at loss and expense to date plus loss in value of vehicle if I sold through one of the tv advertised rip off merchants

many technical guys associated with this forum stated a long time ago that I would never get a fix, perhaps they knew more than I certainly did.

onwards and upward but had I been paying I think all the sensors would have been replaced by now. The dealership even gave me a quote today for a new NOX sensor at £1,251 inc vat (wtaf) like they will replace if I make a contribution but they don't think it is faulty .... well something is!

 

[RobertO2023]

Reading the above, it fills me with frustration. The conclusion I have made over many years of dealing with franchised dealerships is that they have become very complacent to the point where they piss off everyone . Recently, look at Porsche and how they have annoyed so many loyal customers with their attitude ie you have to buy ten lower models to be considered for a 911. VW poor after sales is just typical of most manufacturers. I have zero trust with aftermarket market manufacturers warranty issues. A few years ago I bought one of the first T5.1 KOMBI BTDi Sportline and i had nothing but trouble trying to get things fixed under warranty - engine issues. So why do we all put up with their nonsense. Good luck to all

 

[DXX]

Reading the above, it fills me with frustration. The conclusion I have made over many years of dealing with franchised dealerships is that they have become very complacent to the point where they piss off everyone . Recently, look at Porsche and how they have annoyed so many loyal customers with their attitude ie you have to buy ten lower models to be considered for a 911. VW poor after sales is just typical of most manufacturers. I have zero trust with aftermarket market manufacturers warranty issues. A few years ago I bought one of the first T5.1 KOMBI BTDi Sportline and i had nothing but trouble trying to get things fixed under warranty - engine issues. So why do we all put up with their nonsense. Good luck to all

Insurance companies don’t lose money, they adjust the terms and / or premiums accordingly.