Exactly my point - leave no trace, one night.... dont burn anything down.
Wild camping - A little thought piece.
- Thread starter mommabear
- Start date
@mommabear - absolutely, respectful discussion/debate. Loch Lomond had bylaws to restrict camping introduced over 4 years ago - it's not a new problem. The issue was certainly worse last year, but think of all those extra folks who discovered camping and the countryside, without causing problems and will now be on the 'right side' of this.
Living in the Lakes I see it every weekend/sunny day. 'Fly campers' were out in Buttermere a few weeks ago and when approached by the farmer, they spat at him. I know the guy in charge of the Police response up here and he's seen all sorts. We've got temporary 'pop-up' campsites being sanctioned up here this summer. Guy I know is considering opening one, thinking he can run it while also working Mon-Fri. I fear carnage.
I just think avoiding generalisations is wise - not everyone who goes to Benidorm is like this, clearly, just as not every music festival goer trashes camping gear and then dumps it, off their tits on whatever. If I'm honest, I think your joke about tarmac flashed up a red light. I respect your right to say it, and perhaps I've misunderstood the association you're trying to make, but it didn't 'sit right'. Most may disagree with me here, and isn't that a strength of this place, that we can give opinions.
I think my concerns come from being tarred/tainted by the behaviour of a few people who are like me in some way: I'm a cyclist, therefore I run down old ladies, scare horses, jump red lights and drop litter everywhere.
Maybe we should be trying to organise and help to tackle the problem - like you did with your Herefordshire campsite clear up? The T6 Forum stickers could become a badge to guarantee to campsites that those in the van know how to go about things properly.
Well done Alba Campers for their guide/code, but they seem to be in a minority. The industry that sells the 'camper lifestyle' should be doing more to educate and encourage responsible use.
Living in the Lakes I see it every weekend/sunny day. 'Fly campers' were out in Buttermere a few weeks ago and when approached by the farmer, they spat at him. I know the guy in charge of the Police response up here and he's seen all sorts. We've got temporary 'pop-up' campsites being sanctioned up here this summer. Guy I know is considering opening one, thinking he can run it while also working Mon-Fri. I fear carnage.
I just think avoiding generalisations is wise - not everyone who goes to Benidorm is like this, clearly, just as not every music festival goer trashes camping gear and then dumps it, off their tits on whatever. If I'm honest, I think your joke about tarmac flashed up a red light. I respect your right to say it, and perhaps I've misunderstood the association you're trying to make, but it didn't 'sit right'. Most may disagree with me here, and isn't that a strength of this place, that we can give opinions.
I think my concerns come from being tarred/tainted by the behaviour of a few people who are like me in some way: I'm a cyclist, therefore I run down old ladies, scare horses, jump red lights and drop litter everywhere.
Maybe we should be trying to organise and help to tackle the problem - like you did with your Herefordshire campsite clear up? The T6 Forum stickers could become a badge to guarantee to campsites that those in the van know how to go about things properly.
Well done Alba Campers for their guide/code, but they seem to be in a minority. The industry that sells the 'camper lifestyle' should be doing more to educate and encourage responsible use.
The councils offer free waste and refuse points for trade waste ... but there's the element out there that wont even drive the 20 miles to it and just dump in the Lanes on farmers fields ..... why do they do this ...... and how can you stop them
10s of 1000s of incidents and 6 get arrested .....
everyone knows to take your rubbish home, or at least put it in a bin like don't put hand towels or wet wipes down the loo it will block BUT THEY STILL DO .. is there some satisfaction they get knowing someone has to clean up after them
how can you change their way of thinking they have been educated already...
re - educate them will they listen or change their ways .... i doubt it
increase punishments to suit the crime everyone already knows you don't want to go to prison and they are full
Sorry Rant over .........
10s of 1000s of incidents and 6 get arrested .....
everyone knows to take your rubbish home, or at least put it in a bin like don't put hand towels or wet wipes down the loo it will block BUT THEY STILL DO .. is there some satisfaction they get knowing someone has to clean up after them
how can you change their way of thinking they have been educated already...
re - educate them will they listen or change their ways .... i doubt it
increase punishments to suit the crime everyone already knows you don't want to go to prison and they are full
Sorry Rant over .........
Understand and respect your points entirely...
The trouble with satire, and making caricatures of real life situations, is that invariably, some people dont get it - When you're being satirical, you're sort of making a silly, over inflated, comedic picture out of something that generally people have all witnessed or experienced and can relate to- hence some people think its funny, some dont.
No not everyone who goes to Benidorm is how I described in the blog...but again... the BBC did make a whole comedy series about Benidorm satiring the stereotype, I just kind of went for that angle... I did a season cleaning chalets in Benidorm when I first left school, ....aaannndd i'll be honest, 99% of the people I met were the stereotype....nice people.. but still, I've not just pulled it out of thin air.
Also as a former motorway maintenance worker and a tarmac layer when I was a kid, I feel over qualified to make jokes about what I used to do... I had plenty of satire levelled at me by friends and family over my job, who cares, all in good fun, and I made a mint doing all their drives ha ha, I think I know where you were going with your 'red flag' .... but you've also got to be careful you dont suggest that tarmackers are of a certain creed of people, we aren't... .and as a dear old friend of mine, who happens to be from the travelling community always says, theres good and bad among everyone....
As always, there are always two sides, luckily the T6 Forum crowd generally are grownup people who know I wouldn't have been a turd about anyone in real life, and just enjoy the blogs, its just nice to have a chuckle about things rather than rant about them - and im actually quite pleased that a conversation has been lit up, I generally had not idea people were so passionate about wild camping etc, I've literally had people tell me they would drive over my garden, thats their right as human beings etc..... seriously?
i like to write about things that effect everyday people, and its fun to do it in a humorous way.
No harm intended, but you cant please everyone, and I feel sad I have to explain satire to people. The times we live in....
But, like many Campers, I will never back down on my point about the shit bags...or... 'fly campers' (cool phrase by the way, actually makes the point perfectly) In my opinion they are the scum of the earth, there's no amount of reasoning with them and im happy to insult them. Being as Mother Nature cant speak, ill speak for her when I tell them to 'GET OFF myyyy Laaaanndd !" (sorry... had to throw that one in)... you know what I mean.
Like the idea of a badge though - maybe they could make a special edition one that gets introduced to UK campsites, sort of a symbol/guarantee of decent conduct. Who do we approach about that do you reckon? Actually, I've got an idea..........
Mate dont apologise. This forum is full of adults who are open to each others ideas - your opinion is as valid as anyone else.....
Da Roolz as of today 30 March 2021, EDIT England and Wales.
www.legislation.gov.uk
Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994
An Act to make further provision in relation to criminal justice (including employment in the prison service); to amend or extend the criminal law and powers for preventing crime and enforcing that law; to amend the Video Recordings Act 1984; and for purposes connected with those purposes.
I'm a massive fan of wildcamping. I've done it for 30+ years in various guises. One thing that many people get wrong (as in the attached article) is that...trespass is not unlawful (illegal is a poorly bird). Now I'm not talking of groups etc, nor of aggravated circumstances, simply something such as instead of parking in a layby at the side of the road, instead pulling onto or into the adjacent field on the other side of the hedge (usually away from sight), not causing any damage to anything etc. That is trespassing, but is a civil "tort" (offence) and is not a criminal matter. Yes I have been spoken to poorly by various landowners asking me to move, who possibly understandably believe that I/we are going to leave loads of rubbish or going to chop down the hedges to make bonfires etc. Conversely, I have also spoken to many landowners who on seeing me, the van, contents etc is content (notice that I did not say happy, as I have been necky enough to rock up uninvited) to allow me to stay overnight.
If you have a thick enough skin, you are not doing anything unlawful simply by entering onto private land. I don't holiday in places. I pitch up, eat, sleep and move off again. Access laws on foot are something else entirely- don't get me started on those; with many landowners not understanding what the public IS allowed to do.
If you have a thick enough skin, you are not doing anything unlawful simply by entering onto private land. I don't holiday in places. I pitch up, eat, sleep and move off again. Access laws on foot are something else entirely- don't get me started on those; with many landowners not understanding what the public IS allowed to do.
Nice piece, well put. We kid ourselves that we "Wild Camp", in reality our wild camping is more "Stealth Camping". It normally consists of an overnight stop, somewhere out of the way whilst en-route from one campsite to another. Usually with the aid of P4N or Search for sites. We can do a couple of nights tops, we have mastered the "van shower" i.e. a collapsible bowl of hot water, flannel & shower gel whilst stood on a towel in the van. We have a Porta-Potti in the van, never been used in the 4 years we've owned it, saying that, I've never shat in the woods either. We carry around 30l of fresh water & can make this last 3 days with care (Hint; cemeteries & grave yards often have taps, especially in France).
We walk and camp the South West Coast Path doing 4-5 days away at a time, with good cool weather and restricted beer stops that gets us about 60-80 miles as it’s tough terrain with 17Kg on your back.
Apart from the scenery the great thing about this route is the effort required to walk it, it deters the masses and the mess that they bring. I’m quite glad they all head to Newquay.
I make no apologies.
Apart from the scenery the great thing about this route is the effort required to walk it, it deters the masses and the mess that they bring. I’m quite glad they all head to Newquay.
I make no apologies.
Ah yes, sorry - Need to make a distinction between wild camping in a tent - which I myself have been partial to (stealth..leave no trace.. get no sleep....just watched Dog Soldiers the night before I set off..... that kind of affair..), having a cheeky random night as salty spuds said especially in Europe, in France they have those big picnic areas that are sort of like lay-bys but much nicer and seem to contain less murderers and doggers than UK ones - thats ok, infact I think in France they are more reasonable about it and then theres the other end of the scale where we find excited new camper owners or the 'Kyle Campers' driving a T6 over protected lowland heath. 
Which I have seen, And laughed like a howler monkey when their lowered, bodykitted show van got stuck in a sandpit and had to be pulled out by a Police recovery vehicle..minus a front end
You're 100% correct about trespass being a 'tort'... but can be also prosecutable in law and considered a crime under the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 which I imagine is dependent on what's occurring during the trespass...... (id assume that was your forte there widu13.....correct me if im talking twaddle...)
What im talking about are the nobbers who cause carnage. And I cant believe any of us, here on the T6 forum, would condone that type of behaviour - this is the 'us' and 'them' partition, and I hate to put people in boxes and cause division, but im not making this stuff up, nobody can deny it happens, and you know, to walk around afraid to say anything about it... its ridiculous.
Agree with the land owners thing you mentioned widu13, totally, however, having grown up next to the most miserable farmer in the universe... I also sympathise with landowners who just want people off their land... just because.... I think they have the right to ask us to leave.
Its harder in a van I think...... you cant hide and also I think you kind of make yourself a target for ner-do-wells. Mate of mine got robbed at knifepoint 5 years ago having a cheeky 40 winks on the way back from Wales...Ross Services carpark on the M5/M50 Junction... not kidding.
Which I have seen, And laughed like a howler monkey when their lowered, bodykitted show van got stuck in a sandpit and had to be pulled out by a Police recovery vehicle..minus a front endYou're 100% correct about trespass being a 'tort'... but can be also prosecutable in law and considered a crime under the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 which I imagine is dependent on what's occurring during the trespass...... (id assume that was your forte there widu13.....correct me if im talking twaddle...)
What im talking about are the nobbers who cause carnage. And I cant believe any of us, here on the T6 forum, would condone that type of behaviour - this is the 'us' and 'them' partition, and I hate to put people in boxes and cause division, but im not making this stuff up, nobody can deny it happens, and you know, to walk around afraid to say anything about it... its ridiculous.
Agree with the land owners thing you mentioned widu13, totally, however, having grown up next to the most miserable farmer in the universe... I also sympathise with landowners who just want people off their land... just because.... I think they have the right to ask us to leave.
Its harder in a van I think...... you cant hide and also I think you kind of make yourself a target for ner-do-wells. Mate of mine got robbed at knifepoint 5 years ago having a cheeky 40 winks on the way back from Wales...Ross Services carpark on the M5/M50 Junction... not kidding.
I've got to say, there cant be anything worse than walking along and suddenly the floor isn't there anymore and you've gone down a hole hidden under the grass and its a whopping puddle up to your knee... heavy backpack on....
Water and the two man tent is the killer.
Ah yes, sorry - Need to make a distinction between wild camping in a tent - which I myself have been partial to (stealth..leave no trace.. get no sleep....just watched Dog Soldiers the night before I set off..... that kind of affair..), having a cheeky random night as salty spuds said especially in Europe, in France they have those big picnic areas that are sort of like lay-bys but much nicer and seem to contain less murderers and doggers than UK ones - thats ok, infact I think in France they are more reasonable about it and then theres the other end of the scale where we find excited new camper owners or the 'Kyle Campers' driving a T6 over protected lowland heath.
You're 100% correct about trespass being a 'tort'... but can be also prosecutable in law and considered a crime under the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 which I imagine is dependent on what's occurring during the trespass...... (id assume that was your forte there widu13.....correct me if im talking twaddle...)
What im talking about are the nobbers who cause carnage. And I cant believe any of us, here on the T6 forum, would condone that type of behaviour - this is the 'us' and 'them' partition, and I hate to put people in boxes and cause division, but im not making this stuff up, nobody can deny it happens, and you know, to walk around afraid to say anything about it... its ridiculous.
Agree with the land owners thing you mentioned widu13, totally, however, having grown up next to the most miserable farmer in the universe... I also sympathise with landowners who just want people off their land... just because.... I think they have the right to ask us to leave.
Its harder in a van I think...... you cant hide and also I think you kind of make yourself a target for ner-do-wells. Mate of mine got robbed at knifepoint 5 years ago having a cheeky 40 winks on the way back from Wales...Ross Services carpark on the M5/M50 Junction... not kidding.
Yep, I know a fair bit about the subject.
My initial response (van related) is in relation to "simple" trespass and not "aggravated" which is a criminal offence and is arrestable in specific circumstances. I absolutely, 100% agree that a landowner should always be able to "ask" (demand) you to leave. Which is why I never get upset when a landowner does...after all you'd be hacked off if someone pitched up in your garden! It may help some to know that they cannot "make" you leave. Threats to use tractors etc which would cause damage, is disproportionate and unlawful on their part, but are you going to sleep soundly having just been involved in a barney with a landowner? As an example, I have been spoken to many times by landowners and only once after a reasonable conversation has the landowner insisted that we leave there and then. Every other landowner has allowed an overnight stay.
Tenting wildcamping is much easier, but still needs a thick skin on occasion.
Definitely. I start with 1.5 ltrs in two bottles and aim to keep them full. My summer shelter is a cuben fibre single skin job with a mesh inner (stops ticks) weighing in together at 750g
Winter tent is 1.2kg. Ditching the sleeping bag for a quilt saved 600g and a good sleeping insulated mat is about the size of a can of coke and 400g.Quilt lighter than a bag you say? well I never.... good tip thereDefinitely. I start with 1.5 ltrs in two bottles and aim to keep them full. My summer shelter is a cuben fibre single skin job with a mesh inner (stops ticks) weighing in together at 750g
We're going OT here, but it's your post.
Not a bedroom quilt, a camping quilt. The theory is the same as at home. You use an over quilt, the bottom warmth is provided by a mattress, so a camping quilt does away with 1/3 of the sleeping "bag" that was underneath you and cannot insulate you as the insulation is compressed by your body weight, so you have an immediate size and weight saving of at least a 1/3rd. Choose an appropriate weight (warmth) quilt and the savings reduce even further. I have a quilt that goes down to -15c and is 900g! I have a summer weight one that is 400g, chuck some clothes on (the only spare clothes being carried) and it's now a spring/autumn quilt.
No, I wouldn't park on somebody else's private property for the night, as @widu rightly states I'd be furious if somebody decided to park on my property without asking. I have a thick skin but it's a principle, if I wouldn't want it done to me so I wouldn't do it to somebody else.
You don't need to explain satire to me - big fan of Stewart Lee
It's perfectly lawful to sleep in your van in a lay-by on the highway (unless signed otherwise) and for outdoors sorts (climbers, mountain bikers etc) it has meant that in Scotland you can have a big day in the hills, grab some food and sleep, getting up early and moving on. Sadly people now take the pi$$, breaking out the awnings, gas BBQs and furniture and some then dump the crap mentioned above. Breathalizer tests are increasingly used to discourage this it seems and as not moving on when asked by the land owner or Police is an offence, and the limit in Scotland is 0, it can mean trouble.
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