the single piece bolt wont take the 180 nm as it doesn't have a collar, clamp force is the same, if you over tighten the bolt you plastically deform it rather than elastically deform it so actually the clamp force is less, after that you get stretching and reduction in area (youngs modulus) then the bolt snaps
OEM Wheel Bolt Torque
- Thread starter Stripy
- Start date
Why are you using the wrong bolts then?
So, what you're saying is the single piece bolt is made of a different material? If we assume that we have two wheel bolts both made of the same spec material (and hence the same Young's modulus) one with a collar and one without, and we tighten them to the same torque the clamping force and elastic deformation of the bolts will be exactly the same. The only way your single piece bolt 'won't take 180Nm' is if it is made of an inferior material - nothing to do with the collar.
The clamping force most definitely isn't the same (in your description).
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Given we are talking about the attachment of wheels there are some worrying practices being revealed in this thread 
..... 50 years I hang out with the engines ... I saw broken screws, damaged threads and broken alloy wheels cause too much force to tighten them ... if possible never use pneumatic guns but only torque wrenches to tighten the bolts , it seems excessive 18 nm for alloy rims ... the screw presses directly on the rim .. !! have you tried to unscrew with a normal key the screws closed at 18? ... however everyone does what he thinks best ..
I've spent nearly 20 years working with and on VW products as a test engineer, the collar changes the torque ramp up
I wasn't clear, I use genuine conical VW 2 piece bolts on genuine VW wheels at 180 nm
I use 60 degree taper single piece bolts on after market wheels eg Calibre Trek etc at 160 nm with the bolt for the wheel
the torque is a value to ensure its applying a load, that's why things like head bolts etc are not to be oiled when tightened the torque is there but the clamp load not and it comes undone
each to their own on this but I don't recommend anything on the bolt thread, seating face - even paint on refinished wheels is an issue
the new Audi style collared bolts that look like VW Golf bolts but 2 piece I use 160 nm - S5 new Q7 etc
Golf Bolts 130 nm on PCR Passat etc
Oh yes, worked with a few of those over the years. Can calculate the volume of a pickle jar but can’t get the lid off
From memory, I think those LR alloys bolt up at 140Nm.
I've Coppaslipped the wheels on every vehicle I've owned in 45 years of motoring - I can assure you that there is no corrosion caused by dis-similar metals. I know all about galvanic corrosion having owned multiple Land Rovers where LR seem to think it's perfectly acceptable to use aluminium panels on metal door frames!
That the copper in Coppaslip doesn't cause a problem with steel hubs and alu wheels is, seemingly, one of life's mysteries.
That the copper in Coppaslip doesn't cause a problem with steel hubs and alu wheels is, seemingly, one of life's mysteries.
Oh yes, worked with a few of those over the years. Can calculate the volume of a pickle jar but can’t get the lid off
Removing the lid is the job of a technician. An Engineer is a degree qualified individual (or equal and approved). Everyone else is just a mechanic.
An Engineer can derive the torque required to remove said lid from first principles. This is then relayed to a technician who applies the muscle.
They maybe able to derive the torque but only with the drawing and parts list to identify the said Lid.Removing the lid is the job of a technician. An Engineer is a degree qualified individual (or equal and approved). Everyone else is just a mechanic.
An Engineer can derive the torque required to remove said lid from first principles. This is then relayed to a technician who applies the muscle.
The company I used to work for banded those three terms around as and when it suited them regarding my position;
Engineer...you are responsible when things don’t go to plan.
Technician....you have the multiple skills, no additional manpower required.
Mechanic....time to get dirty.
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I bought a golf from a main dealer last year for the Mrs. It's an 18 plate and had original rear tyres and replacement fronts. A couple of months ago I decided to take the wheels off one at a time to give them a proper clean up. The rears had clearly never been off as the nuts were as tight as you would expect. Got to the fronts and some Muppet had windygunned them on including the locker. Took a 3 foot bar to crack the nuts but the lockers just rounded. Back to the dealers with their own das belt tick sheet which they supplied and pointed out the ticks saying young spunky had loosened and retightened to the correct torque. Got an apology and a new set of lockers. Das belt tick sheet: Pants.
Not if the said lid conforms to the specifications laid out by The Engineer and has been tightened in conformance with the relevent section of the Specification.
Disclaimer: I know umpteen 'Engineers' who wouldnt know one end of a spanner from the next. 'Engineers' who call out technicians to fix things for them. I am not one of those. I love oil and grime and spanners, but sadly equations, calculus and bending moments too. But I'd rather be on my back under my van getting grubby.
It may be important to remember that it will have been Management who decided that the Lid was necessary in the first place. And without Sales and Marketing, the Lids would never find buyers - - -
