T6 not starting but shaking on start up...eventually starts after continous trying [Resolved]

[VwSUP]

Hi all,
my T6 dsg 21k on the clock. 17plate no warranty
Has quite a few times now when trying to start. The engine just shakes but does not fire.
Eventually after continues goes it does start?
Anyone had this before :/
Thanks in advance,
Paul.

Solution
Hi, in regards the the shaking on start up so far clearing the codes and charging the battery, it has not done it since.
But i have had the wires that had been "chewed" through happen again.
The wires have not been "chewed through"
i put the van up on ramps and had a look myself this time (It showed as having "oil sensor take to workshop" and "stop/start error" on the mfd).
Once i looked it was clear the silver underbody heat shield has been cutting through the wires.
I have videod this and am disgraced at VWs lack of mechanical ability.
I have now fixed this myself using 0.5 mil shrink crimps, electrical tape and the extra rubber hose tubing around the wires. I also put the heat shield back in the correct position and fitted it back where it should be. My local Vw basically bodged the whole job. Even connected the wire by cable tie to my ad blue line which eventually would have cut the line. cost £7 to fix myself. Vw charged me £150 and bodged it the first time.

 

[DXX]

Do you have Carista or other OBD2 device, I’d check for fault codes first.

 

[Dellmassive]

just guessing at low fuel pressure . . . (fuel rail)

does it happen after the vans been sitting for a while? . . .

does it restart ok after its started? - ie after a run or warm?


what engine?


as above scan for codes etc.


with VCDS you can monitor the rail pressure PIDs etc

 

[VwSUP]

Hi thanks for quick replies. It has done it when warm aswell as cold. I am going to get hold of vcds tonight and hope this shows something.
And yes it does start okay again after.
Seems to happen very occasionally
The engines euro 6 150bhp.

Thanks again

 

[Dellmassive]

can you be more specific,

of the symptoms, and any correlation of when it happens and why it happens?

raining, dry
cold engine,warm engine.
full tank,empty tank
left a long time? - a week before restart?
does it turn over fast/normal or slow?
any other issues?
any dash lights?
when started does it run smooth?

 

[VwSUP]

I would say the only correlation could be that the vehicle has not been driven alot, i have only had it for 2k miles since april 2020. most of that mileage was done in 3 weeks of working. But now have a knee injury so not working at the moment ( carpet fitter).And we was in lockdown for a while too.
Could possibly be battery related.
Happens in any weather condition.
The only other issue i have had is stop/start error on mfd. Had a full service in June and they found the stop/start error to be a chewed through wire! Even though that happened intermittently.
I will get a vcds scan tonight an post my findings on here.
Currently got the battery charging with the new type charger for stop/start engines.
And the battery is low.
Thanks again Dell
Paul

 

[VwSUP]

Seems to run fine after starting, no dash lights. And seems stuck half way between firing and the starter motor trying to start it. Hence the van just wobbles.
Thanks

 

[Loz]

Lift pump failure...? fuse

 

[ei-aprilia]

Sounds like low battery. These vans don't like sitting doing nothing for long periods. I'm sure VW recommend disconnecting the battery if the van is going to sit longer than 3 weeks.

 

[VwSUP]

Thanks for all your replies, i have managed to get it VCDS checked and the following has come up
Any help or pointers on what to do next would be much appreciated.
Thanks

Mileage: 34100km-21188miles

01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: Malfunction 0010
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
10-Park/Steer Assist -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
5F-Information Electr. -- Status: OK 0000
61-Battery Regul. -- Status: OK 0000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (2D2D2-CXHA) Labels:. 04L-907-309-V2.clb
Part No SW: 04L 906 056 KG HW: 04L 907 445
Component: R4 2.0l TDI H02 3771
Revision: 23002001
Coding: 00254014432501090000
Shop #: WSC 02737 790 50316
ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM20TDI03004L906056KG 004004
ROD: EV_ECM20TDI03004L906056JS_004.rod
VCID: 7CA1F1D9466C765B0EB-8028

2 Faults Found:
25667 - Output for Starter Relay
P0616 00 [032] - Short to Ground
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 32503 km
Date: 2038.01.17
Time: 17:58:28

Engine speed: 828.50 /min
Normed load value: 31.0 %
Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
Coolant temperature: 91 °C
Intake air temperature: 27 °C
Ambient air pressure: 1010 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 12.703 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 8
Starter control: terminal 50 acknowledgment-Terminal 50 on CAN: not active
Starter control: terminal 50 acknowledgment-Terminal 50 CAN valid: active
Starter control: terminal 50 acknowledgment-Terminal 50 via cable: not active
Starter control: terminal 50 acknowledgment-Starter relay: not active
Starter control: terminal 50 acknowledgment-Starter operation read back wire T50Ret: not active
Starter control: terminal 50 acknowledgment: 8
Status of starter activation relay-Relay 1 activated: not active
Status of starter activation relay-Relay 2 activated: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-Immobilizer: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-Starter shift malfunction: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-Speed: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-Drivetrain: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-Speed: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-RPM aborted starts: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-Engag. duration: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-Engag. duration aborted starts: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-Engag. duration panic start: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-new errors: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-manual start/error: active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-ignition: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-Clutch error/terminal 50 malfunction: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-Direct start function: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-Engag. duration defrost.: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1: 1

25672 - Starter Relay 2
P26E5 00 [032] - Short to GND
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 32503 km
Date: 2038.01.17
Time: 17:58:28

Engine speed: 828.50 /min
Normed load value: 31.0 %
Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
Coolant temperature: 91 °C
Intake air temperature: 27 °C
Ambient air pressure: 1010 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 12.703 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 8
Starter control: terminal 50 acknowledgment-Terminal 50 on CAN: not active
Starter control: terminal 50 acknowledgment-Terminal 50 CAN valid: active
Starter control: terminal 50 acknowledgment-Terminal 50 via cable: not active
Starter control: terminal 50 acknowledgment-Starter relay: not active
Starter control: terminal 50 acknowledgment-Starter operation read back wire T50Ret: not active
Starter control: terminal 50 acknowledgment: 8
Status of starter activation relay-Relay 1 activated: not active
Status of starter activation relay-Relay 2 activated: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-Immobilizer: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-Starter shift malfunction: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-Speed: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-Drivetrain: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-Speed: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-RPM aborted starts: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-Engag. duration: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-Engag. duration aborted starts: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-Engag. duration panic start: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-new errors: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-manual start/error: active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-ignition: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-Clutch error/terminal 50 malfunction: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-Direct start function: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-Engag. duration defrost.: not active
Starter control: shut-off conditions 1: 1

Readiness: N/A

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans (J743) Labels:. 0BH-927-711.clb
Part No SW: 0BT 300 046 J HW: 0BH 927 711 G
Component: DSG DQ500-7F H11 5301
Revision: 00H11V01
Coding: 0014
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
ASAM Dataset: EV_TCMDQ500021 001001
ROD: EV_TCMDQ500021_001_VW36.rod
VCID: 3D273CDD1DF6BF53795-8068

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104) Labels: 7E0-907-37x-MK100ESC.clb
Part No SW: 7E0 907 379 P HW: 7E0 907 379 M
Component: ESC H06 0133
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: 40607000000092
Coding: 347E4098656584872C7B027EA68921D3790000
Shop #: WSC 02739 790 50316
ASAM Dataset: EV_Brake1ESCCONTIVN75XGP2 011001
ROD: EV_Brake1ESCCONTIVN75XGP2_011.rod
VCID: 3FDB46D517FAAD436B9-806A

1 Fault Found:
0397 - TPMS Warning
C102D F0 [008] - Pressure Loss
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 3
Fault Frequency: 2
Reset counter: 13
Mileage: 26165 km
Date: 2020.02.11
Time: 19:28:01


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 04: Steering Angle (G085) Labels:* 6R0-959-654.clb
Part No SW: 6R0 959 654 HW: 6R0 959 654
Component: LENKW.SENSOR H07 0070
Serial number: 15021713470722
Coding: 01
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
ASAM Dataset: EV_LWSKLOVW25X 005001
ROD: EV_LWSKLOVW25X.rod
VCID: 7EA5FBD15070644B20F-802A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC (J301) Labels:| 7E5-907-047.clb
Part No SW: 7E0 907 047 AJ HW: 7E0 907 047 AJ
Component: Climatic-T5 H22 0708
Revision: 00001002
Coding: 0000000003
Shop #: WSC 02737 790 50316
ASAM Dataset: EV_ClimaticT5 A01003
ROD: EV_ClimaT5Basis.rod
VCID: 72BDDFE11428302B547-8026

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519) Labels:. 7E0-937-BCM-V1.clb
Part No SW: 7E0 937 090 B HW: 7E0 937 090
Component: BCM PQ25 Max4 H81 0744
Revision: B9081001 Serial number: 0982 054170427
Coding: A0FC793A0A61341193284F746CEB8EF40F84710F60CC6D60320400230840
Shop #: WSC 02737 534 2084736
VCID: 2A0D0781FCF838EB2C7-807E

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 5K7 955 559 C Labels: 5K7-955-559.CLB
Component: RLS 150217 04 42 0106
Coding: 0228EE

Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 7E0 959 801 P HW: 7E0 959 801 P
Component: J386__TSG_FT 003 0653
Serial number: KU0KU001031770603101
Coding: 1400B0

Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 7E0 959 802 P HW: 7E0 959 802 P
Component: J387__TSG_BT 003 0653
Serial number: KU0KU023021770546056
Coding: 0400A0

Subsystem 4 - Part No: 7E1 951 172
Component: DWA-Sensor 00 001 0104
Coding: 000000

Subsystem 5 - Part No: 1K0 951 605 F
Component: LIN BACKUP HO H01 0008
Coding: 000000

Subsystem 6 - Part No: 7E1 951 172
Component: DWA-Sensor 00 001 0104
Coding: 000000

Subsystem 7 - Part No SW: 7E0 959 442 HW: 7E0 959 442 Labels: 3C8-959-537.CLB
Component: E221__MFL-DC1 H02 0103
Serial number: 29170000470020077077
Coding: B0FFFF

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 10: Park/Steer Assist (J446) Labels:| 7E0-919-475.clb
Part No SW: 7E0 919 475 AA HW: 7N0 919 475
Component: PARKHILFE 8K H06 0212
Revision: -------- Serial number: 28231701001687
Coding: 10810C
Shop #: WSC 02737 790 50316
ASAM Dataset: EV_VW75XParkAssis8K 001012
ROD: EV_VW75XParkAssis8K_001_VN75.rod
VCID: 71BFD0ED112E0B33ADD-8024

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags (J234) Labels:| 5K0-959-655.clb
Part No SW: 7E0 959 655 G HW: 7E0 959 655 G
Component: VW10Airbag021 H08 0018
Revision: -------- Serial number: 003V3003ZFX.
Coding: 000000000000000000000000000000003231
Shop #: WSC 02734 790 50316
ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaVW10BPAVW12X 001028
ROD: EV_AirbaVW10BPAVN750.rod
VCID: 3A2D37C10CD8886B5C7-806E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments (J285) Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-17.clb-SRI1
Part No SW: 7E0 920 970 S HW: 7E0 920 970 S
Component: KOMBI H03 1104
Serial number: 00000000000000
Coding: 440B010300
Shop #: WSC 02737 790 50316
ASAM Dataset: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09 A05733
ROD: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09_005_VW31.rod
VCID: 3A2D37C10CD8886B5C7-806E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533) Labels:. 7E0-909-901.clb
Part No SW: 7E0 909 901 HW: 7E0 937 090
Component: GW-K-CAN TP20 H81 0744
Revision: B9081001
Coding: 042305
Shop #: WSC 02737 534 2084736
VCID: 6889BD892274CAFBFA3-803C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer (J334) Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-25.clb
Part No SW: 5K0 953 234 HW: 5K0 953 234
Component: IMMO H03 1104
Serial number:
Coding: 000000
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
ASAM Dataset: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09 A03710
ROD: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09_VW31.rod
VCID: 6A8DC7813CF8F8EBEC7-803E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 5F: Information Electr. (J794) Labels:| 5G0-035-MIB-ENT2.clb
Part No SW: 1K8 035 150 L HW: 1K8 035 150 L
Component: MU-E-D-ER 055 7085
Serial number: 01021700012633
Coding: 065700003C00000041111101008000001F0000C60000010001
Shop #: WSC 02737 790 50316
ASAM Dataset: EV_MUEnt4CGen2LGE 001032
ROD: EV_MUEnt4CGen2LGE_VW32.rod
VCID: 2E050B91C09054CBF0F-807A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 61: Battery Regul. (J840) Labels:. 1K0-907-534.clb
Part No SW: 7E0 907 534 HW: 7E0 937 090
Component: Batt.regelung H81 0744
Serial number: 0982 054170427
Coding: 030B1A73
Shop #: WSC 02739 790 00000
VCID: 6889BD892274CAFBFA3-803C

Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 7E0 915 181 K HW: 7E0 915 181 K
Component: J367-BDMConti H03 1050
Serial number: 758857000017022408D7

No fault code found.

End----------(Elapsed Time: 01:55, VBatt start/end: 12.3V/12.3V)-----------

 

[Loz]

I think short to ground is also current too high as its obviously not a short or wouldn't turn over. High current can caused by a low battery.

 

[Dellmassive]

Starter output. Short to ground....

Not seen that before.

And with 12.7v so a good battery..

...
2 Faults Found:
25667 - Output for Starter Relay
P0616 00 [032] - Short to Ground
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since

....

 

[VwSUP]

Thanks for the reply do you think i should get the codes cleared, charge the battery fully. Then see how i go from there?
Would be a relief if it is just low battery...

 

[Dellmassive]

Yes. Defo.

Clear codes....

Fully charge . .. .

Re.test.


What charger you got?

 

[VwSUP]

I have got a NOCO G3500 , I best go ask the neighbour for another favour and think about getting my own vcds.
i will give this ago and hope it doesn't happen again...
cheers Dell

 

[DaveD]

The only other issue i have had is stop/start error on mfd. Had a full service in June and they found the stop/start error to be a chewed through wire!

I'm thinking what chewed through it and what other wiring did it chew on?

 

[VwSUP]

In all honesty i wondered the same there's 3 cars in the garden never had a chewed wire since i started driving. Had this van for 1 month when that happened. I thought my local vw centre was feeding me some BS. I did let them know what i thought aswell perhaps not a good idea incase they damaged other wires??

 

[Dellmassive]

you can ask them for proof,

either the old chewed wired if they replaced as part of a job,

or a pic or vid of the damage they found on the inspection.

 

[VwSUP]

I did they gave me a video and they just reconnected the wires. At the time due to covid19 my warranty was extended.
but they said this was not covered under warranty so had to pay. I won't be using them again think i will have to travel further to another VW Centre.
even stranger how it would happen intermittently, in my eyes a chewed wire doesn't work at all.
Thanks for the advise tho

 

[MickH]

I did they gave me a video and they just reconnected the wires. At the time due to covid19 my warranty was extended.
but they said this was not covered under warranty so had to pay. I won't be using them again think i will have to travel further to another VW Centre.
even stranger how it would happen intermittently, in my eyes a chewed wire doesn't work at all.
Thanks for the advise tho

Hi, did you get this sorted as it sounds exactly like the problem I am having just now. My 2018 T6 is still under warranty and was in with VW commercial, they said it was the battery and replaced that. However it is still doing the same thing and had to call recovery the other day. It then started without them actually doing anything! I need to get it booked back in with them.