Solar Panel Fitting To Front Hinged Roof

andys

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To save cluttering up @Deaky 's thread any more than I have done, I've split what I'm doing into a separate thread as it seems having a front hinged (i.e. roof higher at the back) setup presents some different challenges for cabling into the van and hopefully anyone attempting this in the future can find this and either do the same, or make sure they avoid everything I do cos it ends up as a complete cock up.

I really don't want a cable gland on top of the roof as it will look ugly and raise the height by 40-50mm, meaning I'd be back above the 2m line. Another alternative was to pass the wires through grommets in the roof and then cut, and somehow seal, a hole to pass it through into the canvas, which makes me nervous.

After lying awake all night and taking a quick few measurements before work this morn then a longer look now, I think I've come up with a workable solution that will avoid both the above problems.

On the photos below, the red lines/piece of red wire indicate where I'm routing the cables.
I know, it's hard to believe I'm not a professional draughtsman...

So the first bit will be to take the 2 cables coming from the front of the solar panel, run them both into a single piece of braided sleeving and pass that through a grommet at the front centre of the roof. I've done 2 squiggles but there will only be 1 hole. And it'll be a bit further back. Just ignore the marks...

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The braided sleeving will be secured above and below by cable ties to prevent strain on the panel connection. Once through the roof, the cable will run up inside the lip along to the driver's side front corner. My plan would be to bond cable clips to the inside of the roof and use these to secure it, rather than bond the cable itself, or use screw fastenings. It will then loop over to the canvas at that corner where it will tuck behind the bungee and continue downwards. This loop will fold in with the canvas, I've tested it. One annoyance is that the pre-attached cable of the panel is only 0.9m long, meaning I'll have to connect the extension cables, with MC4 connectors, under the roof lip.

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From there it will exit the braided sleeving, again secured by cable tie, to separate back into the separate cables to enter into a double gland. I know I said I didn't want one, but this will not add to the height, will be covered when the roof is down, and in fact will be barely visible from the ground when the roof is up. In addition I'll paint it to match the van. The position I've marked has just under 60mm clearance (and is the only place that does) so the gland will fit without being crushed.
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Although the detailed drawing shows the cable entering the front of the gland, I'm going to experiment when it's all in place to see which angle most reduces the strain on the cable entry. I suspect a 45º angle will work better..

From there, the disadvantages of the roof become advantages, the cables come through the roof close to the sunglass holder and will easily route along the top of the window and down the B pillar to the charge controller under the driver's seat.

Any comments, suggestions, or howls of derision welcome :thumbsup:
 
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It’s arrived, awesome service from TNT couriers when I rang to arrange delivery for today as early as possible - was here at 8:20! And it works, reads 9v indoors rising to 20v when I put the light on. It’s absolutely mahoosive but very light so should be no issues installing it myself from that point of view. Obviously wobbling around on top of stepladders will be a bit awkward and I’ll probably have to stand on the bonnet/wings at some point. Now regretting waxing it so thoroughly.

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Unfortunately, although the panel, adhesive, extension cables and charge controller are all here, the braided sleeving, cable clips and gland haven’t arrived yet so I can’t get the whole job done today but I aim to have the panel in place and cables fed through to the under roof.
So a question for anyone who’s fitted a bonded panel, did you key your roof first? I washed mine thoroughly last night and then wiped it with IPA so it’s squeaky clean
 
Well I decided not to key the surface and have now bonded the panel on. I used an MS polymer adhesive after an engineering friend of mine raved about it and said he wouldn't use anything else. Two tubes was just enough so I haven't broken into the third. Despite being fairly light carrying, when you're trying to lift it into place on the adhesive while stood on a ladder on one side it was really awkward and I ended up with it slightly to one side of where I'd marked, easy enough to push into place if it was done immediately but squeezed some lumps of the adhesive out of the side. It took ages to get thin bits of it off the roof and myself using IPA and thinners, so I've decided I'll let the bigger blobs completely dry and cut them off or the mess would go everywhere and take ages to clean. Within 30 secs the panel couldn't be slid so it was just as well I worked fast.

First regret - I should have waited for the panel with the connections underneath to be in stock, the connection box is ugly and noticeable from the front, but as I've done with this van and every other van I've ever had, I started a big project a couple of weeks before my big holiday for the year and am always up against it for time. I had the option of installing the panel further back so the box would be less noticeable, but there was a round bolt head from the roof in the way and the panel is butting up against that now. With hindsight the panel is probably flexible enough that it would have covered over the small lump without issue. The wires would still have had to come through the roof in the same place but the box would have been less noticeable. Anyway it's too late now, what's done is done. The box adds 19mm to the height, though the van currently stands 15mm higher at the back so it has only raised the actual height by 4mm.

Next thing I did was decide to cut off the MC4 connectors and tape up the wires. I know this has voided the warranty but it would have meant cutting 2 x 25mm holes in the top of the roof and I just didn't want to do that so I've ordered some more connectors (these ones were moulded on) and will reconnect those once I've passed the cables through. This way I only need to drill 6.5mm holes, including grommet size. This is what it looks like now, I'm having a break for something to eat and read the instructions I've found for fitting the panel :)

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Rain stopped play after bonding the panel so work resumed today. In the end I've deviated from the plans I put at the top of the thread in almost every possible way.
First off, the cable gland box was longer than I expected, although I 'd checked the height clearance was ok, I just assumed looking at the pictures and the space I had on my roof, that it would fit fine. I know, schoolboy error :rolleyes:

After checking through Ebay and finding they were all about the same, my next thought was to take the glands out of the box and have the two cables going vertically down through the roof in the same spot. After much mocking up and trialling I decided that this would put far too much strain on the fairly stiff cable, as it would force it to bend at a very sharp angle. So it was off to ebay again, and after mocking up with some 90º plastic pipe joints I found that I could position them to put virtually no kinking force on the cable, so ordered some right angle cable glands which arrived in time for starting the work today.

So out first thing this morning, up the ladder and next major setback. The bit of the roof where the cable glands have to go through is this part marked with a red box

IMG_5114.jpg

Notice anything about it? That's right... It's not the roof! It's a fibreglass shell that forms an integral part of the rising roof, bonded onto the actual roof. So there's no way of getting access to the underneath of it to tighten the nuts on the back of the gland. After doing my Father Jack impression I went for a sit down and a think.

There was only one thing I could think of, go through the canvas as suggested by @scotia. I read up on yacht forums about passing cables/pipes through canvas and the advice there was to burn the holes so that the edges self-seal, so that's what I did. Deep breath and burn two holes through the front of the canvas as high up as I could. Followed that up with smearing the edges of the holes with fabric glue as an extra step to stop the fibres unravelling. After that I used the cable glands from the original box to pass the cable inside the canvas, smearing the threads of the gland on both sides with silicone sealant. I really didn't want to do this but t's done now and there was no other way I could think of round the problem. We'll see whether I've made the right decision the first night I sleep head on in rain with the roof up. Got to admit it does look neater than my original plan would have done though.

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I don't like having the ugly bits at the front rather than the back, but it doesn't look too bad from the ground. The cables fold down fine inside. I'll probably get a canvas pocket to go round them, much like the OEM one on the left.
 
Once inside it's an easy run round the inside of the roof, down the B pillar, under the carpet to the seatbase, where my battery, CTek DC-DC charger and Victron solar contoller are.
IMG_5201.JPG

All seems to work fine. There hasn't been an awful lot of direct sunlight today and it's been fluctuating between 50 and 80W most of the time, but the sun did come out for a brief spell when I was able to grab a screenshot of it over 100W. Bearing in mind that the roof was up at the time and the van was pointing more than 90º away from the sun I'm pretty pleased with that. A question for other Blue/Smart Solar users, do I leave the settings as default or do I need to tweak them to suit my battery?

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hey that doesnt look too bad :) well done. I hope that all holds up, im pretty sure it will as you have made a hole by burning, and then clamped the two sides of the fabric together with the pass cables..

looks neat, have a beer!
 
Once inside it's an easy run round the inside of the roof, down the B pillar, under the carpet to the seatbase, where my battery, CTek DC-DC charger and Victron solar contoller are.
View attachment 27418

All seems to work fine. There hasn't been an awful lot of direct sunlight today and it's been fluctuating between 50 and 80W most of the time, but the sun did come out for a brief spell when I was able to grab a screenshot of it over 100W. Bearing in mind that the roof was up at the time and the van was pointing more than 90º away from the sun I'm pretty pleased with that. A question for other Blue/Smart Solar users, do I leave the settings as default or do I need to tweak them to suit my battery?

View attachment 27419
There are a few battery presets. There is only 1 AGM presets though, so I selected that. You can define your own though, you should be able to get the specs you need from your battery manufacturers website.
 
There are a few battery presets. There is only 1 AGM presets though, so I selected that. You can define your own though, you should be able to get the specs you need from your battery manufacturers website.
Thanks, I've found the AGM preset and set it to that, the parameters fit with Varta's
 
question for anyone who knows... im trying to reduce the number of times i have to take the front seats off... as im not ready for the solar panel yet.. i would like to already route the cables that will come from the panel to the victron and then to the battery...

what spec cables must be used? sorry for the numpty question...!

im looking to try to get the same panel - 250W...but if i cant then i'll just lump it and get a 150W
 
6mm for a 250w or 4mm for a 150w
 
question for anyone who knows... im trying to reduce the number of times i have to take the front seats off... as im not ready for the solar panel yet.. i would like to already route the cables that will come from the panel to the victron and then to the battery...

what spec cables must be used? sorry for the numpty question...!

im looking to try to get the same panel - 250W...but if i cant then i'll just lump it and get a 150W
Yes I used 6mm cable, it’s stiff as hell and I found it quite difficult to route as it needs quite a large bending radius. Getting the right position for the cables to bend with the roof was one of the hardest jobs for me.
 
ok thanks for that. Im at a loss as to how to get a 250W panel over here... its going to cost almost the same as the panel! So im probably going to go for a 150W panel here and be done with it. We only have the 110Ah leisure battery the dometic powered coolbox and a few led spots, and usb awning lights.. should be ok.
 
Couple of question @andys - for the drilling the holes in the pop-top - what drill bit did you use? wood/metal etc?

Did you seal the holes once drilled? if so, with what?

Did you use a rubber grommet to pass the cable through?

thanks in advance!
 
Couple of question @andys - for the drilling the holes in the pop-top - what drill bit did you use? wood/metal etc?

Did you seal the holes once drilled? if so, with what?

Did you use a rubber grommet to pass the cable through?

thanks in advance!
Hi @scotia I used an 8mm hss bit after drilling a smaller pilot hole. The shell was too thick for one grommet so I cut one in half and used these to put in either side of the hole to stop rubbing. I did seal it with the same compound I use to stick the panel, though bear in mind this wasn't crucial in my case as it wasn't inside the canvas.

I'm away in the van at the mo and am really pleased with the solar setup, no more having to find a pitch with electricity. It's weird to leave the van with the fridge running and laptop and camera batteries charging for a couple of hours and come back to find the battery in a higher state of charge than when you left it, even without full sun
 
ok yes, thanks for that. Re: the sealing, i'll also be outside the canvas, but i was thinking about water seeping into the glass fibre somhow and creating problems..
 
ok yes, thanks for that. Re: the sealing, i'll also be outside the canvas, but i was thinking about water seeping into the glass fibre somhow and creating problems..
Yes that was my thinking too, also didn't want it pooling underneath when the roof was closed. A blob either side in the hole was all it took
 
It’s arrived, awesome service from TNT couriers when I rang to arrange delivery for today as early as possible - was here at 8:20! And it works, reads 9v indoors rising to 20v when I put the light on. It’s absolutely mahoosive but very light so should be no issues installing it myself from that point of view. Obviously wobbling around on top of stepladders will be a bit awkward and I’ll probably have to stand on the bonnet/wings at some point. Now regretting waxing it so thoroughly.

View attachment 27260


Unfortunately, although the panel, adhesive, extension cables and charge controller are all here, the braided sleeving, cable clips and gland haven’t arrived yet so I can’t get the whole job done today but I aim to have the panel in place and cables fed through to the under roof.
So a question for anyone who’s fitted a bonded panel, did you key your roof first? I washed mine thoroughly last night and then wiped it with IPA so it’s squeaky clean
Andy,

I have spent far too much time on forums and Google as I to want to embark on the pop top solar panel. You’re a brave man fitting yourself! I have found a local guy to fit, thought I found the ideal panel from Phototenics all cabling etc underneath 250w and made in Austria to be told unavailable for 6 months!

Can you recommend your setup and if so where did you get from?

Thanks in advance
Phil
 
Andy,

I have spent far too much time on forums and Google as I to want to embark on the pop top solar panel. You’re a brave man fitting yourself! I have found a local guy to fit, thought I found the ideal panel from Phototenics all cabling etc underneath 250w and made in Austria to be told unavailable for 6 months!

Can you recommend your setup and if so where did you get from?

Thanks in advance
Phil
Hi Phil, the panel I have is the one @Deaky fitted and I would definitely recommend it, the only thing I'd change is that I would also go for the version that had the connections underneath as fitted by him, it would be better cosmetically, especially in my case with it being at the front. The problem was, as you mention, it was out of stock with no definite delivery date available when I bought. But this is a screenshot a few minutes ago, and the roof isn't even angled towards the sun!
3FEC5903-C4E2-47D3-8CA4-E3DEAE12C7C1.jpeg
Note that it's pegged at 10A though, I should have gone for the 75/15 but it was out of stock and I went for the 75/10. Very happy with the setup though, I haven't even brought a hookup cable with me and I don't even have to think about my electricity use. Totally addicted to checking the victron app though :D
 
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