Softer ride than my current B14’s

[davek]

Hi, Had the bilstein B14,s fitted to my T6 T28 SWB back in Feb, was reasonably happy with them, then the misses decided she wanted to be included on the insurance, and to start driving it. First thing she mentioned is she thought the ride was harsh and uncomfortable, which i must admit, so did i, but previously just accepted it. I (we) have decided to soften and make the ride a bit more comfortable, Front is lowered to 40mm, rear 45mm, this was done by Vanstyles at my request, after reading a lot of reviews on the forum. Any suggestions would be appreciated, and is it something i can do on the drive. Ps, The van is also fitted with HR ARB,s

 

[Dellmassive]

You could try.....


Raise the ride height to give the suspension more travel.

Use higher profile tyres on the wheels to give a bit more play.

Go back to OEM wheels, tyres, suspension.

Try Air ride suspension.

 

[davek]

thanks for that, was going to raise ride height a bit before new tyres, wheels etc, what adjustment would you suggest would make the ride better

 

[VanDamMan]

Hi, Had the bilstein B14,s fitted to my T6 T28 SWB back in Feb, was reasonably happy with them, then the misses decided she wanted to be included on the insurance, and to start driving it. First thing she mentioned is she thought the ride was harsh and uncomfortable, which i must admit, so did i, but previously just accepted it. I (we) have decided to soften and make the ride a bit more comfortable, Front is lowered to 40mm, rear 45mm, this was done by Vanstyles at my request, after reading a lot of reviews on the forum. Any suggestions would be appreciated, and is it something i can do on the drive. Ps, The van is also fitted with HR ARB,s

Hi @davek.... We have a T32 204 Which is a heavy old beast...No van will ever be considered car like regarding suspension...but its funny reading some posts....you see people pay fortunes for suspension and wheel combo’s and then wonder why it’s not comfortable..I’m not in the position to waste money so started off 30mm springs 45 profile 18“ tyres and then Koni comfort ( well I hope they are) but @CRS Performance will always give good advice.....just love it....hope you find your Utopia

 

[Dellmassive]

I run OEM sportline setup with 18's..... which is firm compared to standard OEM 17" setup

@BognorMotors may be able to help, advise, assist. In making your ride more comfortable.

Bognor Motors - Hire, Sales, Service & MOT Bognor Regis & Chichester

Chichester & Bognor Car and Van servicing and repairs, MOT testing, car and van sales, leasing and contract hire, and MPV, minibus and Conversions.

bmvs.co.uk

.

 

[davek]

Vanstyles suggested raising ride height by winding up the coil using the tool they provided, sounds good but does that shorten the spring and make the ride harsher

 

[T6ARF]

Vanstyles suggested raising ride height by winding up the coil using the tool they provided, sounds good but does that shorten the spring and make the ride harsher

If you raise the ride height up you’ll be lengthening the spring and giving it more ‘travel’ in my mind? But I’m no expert....
@ChrisR on this forum has a lot of knowledge about suspension.... and Steve @CRS Performance is a suspension specialist.... might be best to aim your question/problem in their direction! Good luck!

 

[davek]

mine are adjustable with a 40mm to 70mm range, they are set at 40mm front and 45mm rear, is that the hardest setting or the softest, ooo my head hurts1

 

[Dellmassive]

Shorter spring travel = firmer ride.

Longer spring travel = pusher ride.

That's physics.......

So if you raise the adjuster up, your raising the ride height, and lengthening the spring travel and .making a smoother ride. . . depending on the kit.

some kits might need a longer spring fitted.

with a fixed spring length on some of the coil overs raising the ride height doesn't lengthen the spring . . . it just pre-loads the spring higher up the strut so you get even less overall travel (due to the pre-load van weight)

 

[Dellmassive]

mine are adjustable with a 40mm to 70mm range, they are set at 40mm front and 45mm rear, is that the hardest setting or the softest, ooo my head hurts1

It depends how the figure is quoted..

Normally its the reduction in ride height from stock.

So 45mm drop is less than 70mm drop.

Meaning the 45mm would have more spring travel than a 70mm drop.....

70mm drop would have the least spring travel and the firmest ride..

 

[davek]

Thanks for that simple answer, think it,s sinking in now

 

[Dellmassive]

more info here:

.

 

[The Van Cave]

So, there are a couple of common misconceptions about coilover suspension and I'll try and address them here. For background I'm a mechanical engineer, theoretical and practical, and I've worked with springs in various applications over the years. I also happen to know a thing or two about transporter suspension.

1. The adjustment of a coilover up or down does virtually nothing to the spring rate.
2. It's all about the shock absorber, not the spring.

I'll explain further...

Let's assume that the load on the spring due to the weight of the van remains constant (for example when adjusting your coilover you haven't also at the same time decided to put half a tonne of hard core in the back of the van). If your coil over is set at the highest setting and you adjust it to the lowest setting it does nothing to change the compression of the spring. A spring cannot and will not change its length unless a change in the load is applied to the spring. Adjusting your coilover does not change the length of the spring, it effectively changes the length of the shock absorber. On the front, if you wind the adjuster up, it pushes the van up (assuming you adjust both sides the same), it doesn't lengthen or shorten the spring. If you wind the adjuster down, the van ride height drops, but again, it doesn't make the spring shorter or longer. If winding the adjusters changed the length of the spring then the van ride height would never change! You aren't increasing or decreasing the weight of the van by adjusting a coilover so the load on the spring remains pretty constant.

A coilover with the adjuster wound to the highest setting effectively makes the shock absorber longer than when adjusted to its lowest setting and it's this that makes the difference to ride comfort.

When adjusted to the highest setting a coilover shock is at it's longest. This gives the piston the longest travel within the shock body, allowing the valves and other internal parts to operate at their optimum, this gives you a more comfortable ride. When you adjust to their lowest setting the piston has less distance to travel in the shock, effectively meaning everything in the shock is working harder to fight the forces of physics and this is what gives you a harsher ride.

Any coil over when set to its lowest setting will be less comfortable than the same one set to highest setting for exactly these reasons, but it is nothing to do with the spring, it's all about the effective length of the shock and how the piston and valves have to work harder as you go lower.

 

[T6ARF]

So, there are a couple of common misconceptions about coilover suspension and I'll try and address them here. For background I'm a mechanical engineer, theoretical and practical, and I've worked with springs in various applications over the years. I also happen to know a thing or two about transporter suspension.

1. The adjustment of a coilover up or down does virtually nothing to the spring rate.
2. It's all about the shock absorber, not the spring.

I'll explain further...

Let's assume that the load on the spring due to the weight of the van remains constant (for example when adjusting your coilover you haven't also at the same time decided to put half a tonne of hard core in the back of the van). If your coil over is set at the highest setting and you adjust it to the lowest setting it does nothing to change the compression of the spring. A spring cannot and will not change its length unless a change in the load is applied to the spring. Adjusting your coilover does not change the length of the spring, it effectively changes the length of the shock absorber. On the front, if you wind the adjuster up, it pushes the van up (assuming you adjust both sides the same), it doesn't lengthen or shorten the spring. If you wind the adjuster down, the van ride height drops, but again, it doesn't make the spring shorter or longer. If winding the adjusters changed the length of the spring then the van ride height would never change! You aren't increasing or decreasing the weight of the van by adjusting a coilover so the load on the spring remains pretty constant.

A coilover with the adjuster wound to the highest setting effectively makes the shock absorber longer than when adjusted to its lowest setting and it's this that makes the difference to ride comfort.

When adjusted to the highest setting a coilover shock is at it's longest. This gives the piston the longest travel within the shock body, allowing the valves and other internal parts to operate at their optimum, this gives you a more comfortable ride. When you adjust to their lowest setting the piston has less distance to travel in the shock, effectively meaning everything in the shock is working harder to fight the forces of physics and this is what gives you a harsher ride.

Any coil over when set to its lowest setting will be less comfortable than the same one set to highest setting for exactly these reasons, but it is nothing to do with the spring, it's all about the effective length of the shock and how the piston and valves have to work harder as you go lower.

Superb!

 

[davek]

Wow, great answer, thanks, so based on that reasoning, my settings are at 40 and 45mm, meaning they are already at the softest setting, and apart from changing shock absorbers and or tyres, there,s not a lot more i can do, except take tyre pressure down to 36 from 40

 

[Dellmassive]

or swap out for another kit . . . oe OEM.

with longer travel springs.

 

[The Van Cave]

Wow, great answer, thanks, so based on that reasoning, my settings are at 40 and 45mm, meaning they are already at the softest setting, and apart from changing shock absorbers and or tyres, there,s not a lot more i can do, except take tyre pressure down to 36 from 40

Yes, you are pretty much on the softest setting. Are you on 20s? I run my 20s at 36 psi, they wear evenly and do help the ride at the softer pressure. Your ARBs are not a problem by the way, they don’t directly affect the ride comfort, they are there to control body roll in corners.

Your only other option is to change your suspension, which is costly, but if it’s really a problem it might be worth it. You can still get £500 or so for a used set of B14s so that would lessen the blow.

Depending on what you want from your suspension, especially how much lowering you want, you can open up options to set ups that are both very comfortable but still maintain a sporty feel.

 

[davek]

Thanks everyone, appreciate Cyril will never ride like a car, but we can keep on trying, it,s all part of the fun

 

[davek]

Running 18,s at 40psi Chris

 

[Skyliner33]

So, there are a couple of common misconceptions about coilover suspension and I'll try and address them here. For background I'm a mechanical engineer, theoretical and practical, and I've worked with springs in various applications over the years. I also happen to know a thing or two about transporter suspension.

1. The adjustment of a coilover up or down does virtually nothing to the spring rate.
2. It's all about the shock absorber, not the spring.

I'll explain further...

Let's assume that the load on the spring due to the weight of the van remains constant (for example when adjusting your coilover you haven't also at the same time decided to put half a tonne of hard core in the back of the van). If your coil over is set at the highest setting and you adjust it to the lowest setting it does nothing to change the compression of the spring. A spring cannot and will not change its length unless a change in the load is applied to the spring. Adjusting your coilover does not change the length of the spring, it effectively changes the length of the shock absorber. On the front, if you wind the adjuster up, it pushes the van up (assuming you adjust both sides the same), it doesn't lengthen or shorten the spring. If you wind the adjuster down, the van ride height drops, but again, it doesn't make the spring shorter or longer. If winding the adjusters changed the length of the spring then the van ride height would never change! You aren't increasing or decreasing the weight of the van by adjusting a coilover so the load on the spring remains pretty constant.

A coilover with the adjuster wound to the highest setting effectively makes the shock absorber longer than when adjusted to its lowest setting and it's this that makes the difference to ride comfort.

When adjusted to the highest setting a coilover shock is at it's longest. This gives the piston the longest travel within the shock body, allowing the valves and other internal parts to operate at their optimum, this gives you a more comfortable ride. When you adjust to their lowest setting the piston has less distance to travel in the shock, effectively meaning everything in the shock is working harder to fight the forces of physics and this is what gives you a harsher ride.

Any coil over when set to its lowest setting will be less comfortable than the same one set to highest setting for exactly these reasons, but it is nothing to do with the spring, it's all about the effective length of the shock and how the piston and valves have to work harder as you go lower.

Very good post especially about the spring. However I would disagree with you about the shock. shocks are designed to operate best in the middle and perform best when the suspension is set up this way. They work worst when the springs are set so that the shock is at either end of its range. Ie fully up or fully down.