Propex Underslung Gas Tank - No Gas For A Brew...

[moomin-j]

Went to make a brew this morning sat in the T6 overlooking Ullswater - the gas ring wouldn't light.
The interior Propex contents gauge is showing 3 green LED lights and no red fault codes.
If you press the interior on/off button you can hear the exterior solenoid isolation valve clicking and I presume this means it is opening / closing?
Checked the rear BBQ point with an open ended hose and no gas here either.

Any body - any suggestions?

 

[widu13]

Stuck fill sensor? Do you actually have gas? I saw a youtube video where a vanner has bars showing but no gas. From memory the fix was to replace the sender.

 

[moomin-j]

Stuck fill sensor? Do you actually have gas? I saw a youtube video where a vanner has bars showing but no gas. From memory the fix was to replace the sender.

Thanks for your prompt reply.

I think I have gas, as I have only used it for 14 trips with average use, but as a 1st attempt at a fix, I am going to fill it up to see how much I can get in the tank.
I know you can only fill to 80% of volume to allow for expansion
When fitted, the installers filled it with approx £8.00 worth of gas 2 months ago, so if the gauge is working, I shouldn't be able to fit more than £4.00 worth in the tank
I just now need to find a local garage that can fill it

 

[widu13]

Often on first fill, the tank's cut of doesn't work correctly (known across all tanks/makes/types). It could be that it didn't fill properly on first fill.

 

[DaveyB]

Do be mindful that the gauge may not immediately show the contents of the tank. This is because lpg is rather cold and freezes the float switch when it first filled.
Sounds as though one of two faults:-
1. You are out of gas, the open end in the BBQ point would certainly suggest this (so long as you turned on the inline isolator on the bbq point.
2. Faulty sender unit.

My suggestion would be to just put a couple of litres in it first. If you need to have the sender unit/ float switch swapped out, they may not do it with a full tank of gas. It’ll be easier to use up a couple of litres than a full tank.

 

[moomin-j]

Do be mindful that the gauge may not immediately show the contents of the tank. This is because lpg is rather cold and freezes the float switch when it first filled.
Sounds as though one of two faults:-
1. You are out of gas, the open end in the BBQ point would certainly suggest this (so long as you turned on the inline isolator on the bbq point.
2. Faulty sender unit.

My suggestion would be to just put a couple of litres in it first. If you need to have the sender unit/ float switch swapped out, they may not do it with a full tank of gas. It’ll be easier to use up a couple of litres than a full tank.

Cheers for the helpful replies.

Yes, the inline valve was open when trying the BBQ point.

I just need to find a local garage that sells LPG to try the suggestions. The one most local to me shuts at 5 in the week, and I don't normally manage to get home till late so I will most likely have to sort this out over the coming wknd.

I'll let you know what happens.

 

[moomin-j]

The story expands...

Managed to get off work early tonight, so I could get to the garage to fill up with a few litres of LPG as suggested by DavyB.
But I thought I would try it again whilst still on the drive and guess what - when switching on the interior gauge / panel the exterior solenoid clicks (same as before) showing 2 lit up green LEDs with no fault codes, tried the gas ring and voila - the gas hisses through and lights up.

I think the van is haunted!!

Off I drove to the garage and managed to fill up with 8.1 litres of LPG, in the 15L cylinder which cost £5.68.
I know the tank is only made to fill to 80% of volume to allow for expansion, so a 15L tank should only be filled to 12L maximum.
From this, I can only presume that there was still 1/3 of a tank left yesterday, but the solenoid wasn't opening the valve or the sender unit / float switch was sticking, but has somehow now learnt the ability to mend itself overnight whils sat on the drive!!

I just hope this doesn't happen again whilst on a longer than a 1 night weekend camping trip, but as it is now working ok, I don't think I can do anything else other than sit tight and wait and cross all fingers / toes and anything else to hope that this is a 1 off problem, now solved?

 

[Salty Spuds]

The story expands...

Managed to get off work early tonight, so I could get to the garage to fill up with a few litres of LPG as suggested by DavyB.
But I thought I would try it again whilst still on the drive and guess what - when switching on the interior gauge / panel the exterior solenoid clicks (same as before) showing 2 lit up green LEDs with no fault codes, tried the gas ring and voila - the gas hisses through and lights up.

I think the van is haunted!!

Off I drove to the garage and managed to fill up with 8.1 litres of LPG, in the 15L cylinder which cost £5.68.
I know the tank is only made to fill to 80% of volume to allow for expansion, so a 15L tank should only be filled to 12L maximum.
From this, I can only presume that there was still 1/3 of a tank left yesterday, but the solenoid wasn't opening the valve or the sender unit / float switch was sticking, but has somehow now learnt the ability to mend itself overnight whils sat on the drive!!

I just hope this doesn't happen again whilst on a longer than a 1 night weekend camping trip, but as it is now working ok, I don't think I can do anything else other than sit tight and wait and cross all fingers / toes and anything else to hope that this is a 1 off problem, now solved?

Or you’ve picked some crap up in the tank & it blocked the solenoid. LPG is known for being “cruddy” I have a filter between the tank & regulator.

 

[widu13]

It's a win- take it!

 

[moomin-j]

It's a win- take it!

 

[DaveyB]

The story expands...

Managed to get off work early tonight, so I could get to the garage to fill up with a few litres of LPG as suggested by DavyB.
But I thought I would try it again whilst still on the drive and guess what - when switching on the interior gauge / panel the exterior solenoid clicks (same as before) showing 2 lit up green LEDs with no fault codes, tried the gas ring and voila - the gas hisses through and lights up.

I think the van is haunted!!

Off I drove to the garage and managed to fill up with 8.1 litres of LPG, in the 15L cylinder which cost £5.68.
I know the tank is only made to fill to 80% of volume to allow for expansion, so a 15L tank should only be filled to 12L maximum.
From this, I can only presume that there was still 1/3 of a tank left yesterday, but the solenoid wasn't opening the valve or the sender unit / float switch was sticking, but has somehow now learnt the ability to mend itself overnight whils sat on the drive!!

I just hope this doesn't happen again whilst on a longer than a 1 night weekend camping trip, but as it is now working ok, I don't think I can do anything else other than sit tight and wait and cross all fingers / toes and anything else to hope that this is a 1 off problem, now solved?

Might just be worth logging it with the fitter/ Propex, so that if it does happen again they can’t say “we’ll just see how it goes”. They know they have faulty sender units etc, they have even changed something in their solenoid, but depending on how old your install is you may have the new version already.
I had the opposite recently, gauge showed empty, filled it with about 10lt (I always err on the side of caution) and two days later the gauge still showed empty (one red light illuminated). On the 3rd day hey presto all greens.

 

[moomin-j]

Might just be worth logging it with the fitter/ Propex, so that if it does happen again they can’t say “we’ll just see how it goes”. They know they have faulty sender units etc, they have even changed something in their solenoid, but depending on how old your install is you may have the new version already.
I had the opposite recently, gauge showed empty, filled it with about 10lt (I always err on the side of caution) and two days later the gauge still showed empty (one red light illuminated). On the 3rd day hey presto all greens.

Good advice, DavyB - cheers.

Tank and installation is <3 months old and so I am pretty confident it has the updated valves.

Rang Propex HQ and spoke to Jason, who sets up the valves in the tanks, prior to dispatch to customers / installers and he confirms that this has happened before, but not often.
Now that it seems to be working ok, his recommendation is to use the gas tank as normal and to see if it happens again, when it drops to 2 LED light bars. As with it working ok now, there is little to do or change.
At least its logged with them as a potential future Warranty claim from today.

Also, spoke to the the camper conversion company who installed it in March who is as mystified as to the cause as I am, but who is willing to help as much as he can so it does not happen again. This was his 1st install of the tank, but Richard Kitchner (Propex MD), did a 1/2 day install demo workshop from his own T5 install, so that he has full accreditation from Propex for installation of the gas tank / controller.

In the meantime and as a short term back up, I think it may be wise for me to carry a single burner / disposable gas cartridge just so that we can still make a brew.
If the BBQ point stops working, then this will end up being a pub meal with a few beers thrown in for good measure.

I'll keep you updated...

 

[Salty Spuds]

It's a win- take it!

For now, but what if it happens again? Call me pedantic, but I’d want to know why it failed & then “healed up”.

 

[moomin-j]

For now, but what if it happens again? Call me pedantic, but I’d want to know why it failed & then “healed up”.

I agree, and in an ideal world I would most certainly want to know "why it failed & then healed up"but I don't see how I can, now that it is working ok?

If I took it back to the converter, I am not sure what I could ask him to look at, even though I know he would do anything he could (to the supplied installation!!) to keep me happy.
I could take it to Propex, but they are 3.5 hrs / 200 miles away in Hampshire, so at this moment in time when everything works, this is not really a viable option.

I am sure it may happen again, but in the meantime it works and as the conversion is new, its Warranty will last until next year and I won't let 1 thing get me down when there is nothing I can do about it.

I try to look at things with a pint half full scenario. It may not work all the time, but it seems to get me through most of the problems that life throws at you.

 

[Grim Reaper]

I have just put the first fill into my Gas-It underslung tank.
I put 3 litres in (£1.76) and all seemed well at the filling station (no hissing or massive smell of gas after I'd disconnected the filler hose, so I paid and headed home to give it the once over.
3 miles to home and pulled onto the drive, still no smells or hissing, so slid underneath to check closer up. The on tank gauge is still firmly on the stop.. Empty? Turned the outlet valve on inside the van, click from underneath, red light on the gauge. Back under the van, no hissing or smells still so I plugged the BBQ valve in (no hose attached) and.... Nothing??
So no leaks But no gas .
Could I have lost 3 litres of gas in 3 miles with no sound or smell of gas escaping?

 

[Salty Spuds]

I have just put the first fill into my Gas-It underslung tank.
I put 3 litres in (£1.76) and all seemed well at the filling station (no hissing or massive smell of gas after I'd disconnected the filler hose, so I paid and headed home to give it the once over.
3 miles to home and pulled onto the drive, still no smells or hissing, so slid underneath to check closer up. The on tank gauge is still firmly on the stop.. Empty? Turned the outlet valve on inside the van, click from underneath, red light on the gauge. Back under the van, no hissing or smells still so I plugged the BBQ valve in (no hose attached) and.... Nothing??
So no leaks But no gas .
Could I have lost 3 litres of gas in 3 miles with no sound or smell of gas escaping?

Is there a manual valve on the tank? If so it’s it open? 3 litres for a first fill doesn’t sound much, how big is your tank?
Is there a gas manifold in the van after the regulator? This will (should) have valves for the individual takeoffs:- hob/bbq/heater etc, are these valves open? Re. The bbq takeoff point, is it the red bullfinch plug in type? Did you turn it fully 90deg after you plugged it in?

 

[Grim Reaper]

It's the 15 litre VW T5/T6 tank here VW T5, T6 GAS IT EASYFIT 200mm x 15 ltr self refillable underslung or internal gas tank for use in any Motorhome, Caravan, Campervan, Farrier, Catering and Road Repair lorries and vans. - GAS IT Leisure Gas Bottles, Gas Cylincers and Gas Tanks - Catering, Motorhome, Campervan, Caravan, Farrier and Road Repair Refillable Gas Solutions. so electric solenoid valve (the click I hear when I turn it on) no other valves on the tank and the regulator currently only feeds to the BBQ outlet Gas It BBQ Fitting including Housing, GI-ACCS-016 - GAS IT Leisure Gas Bottles, Gas Cylincers and Gas Tanks - Catering, Motorhome, Campervan, Caravan, Farrier and Road Repair Refillable Gas Solutions. so just a single piece of 8mm copper pipe between them, the BBQ outlet is a valve that (should) closes off when the insert is removed.
I only put 3 litres in to check for leaks before I went for the full fill.

 

[Salty Spuds]

It's the 15 litre VW T5/T6 tank here VW T5, T6 GAS IT EASYFIT 200mm x 15 ltr self refillable underslung or internal gas tank for use in any Motorhome, Caravan, Campervan, Farrier, Catering and Road Repair lorries and vans. - GAS IT Leisure Gas Bottles, Gas Cylincers and Gas Tanks - Catering, Motorhome, Campervan, Caravan, Farrier and Road Repair Refillable Gas Solutions. so electric solenoid valve (the click I hear when I turn it on) no other valves on the tank and the regulator currently only feeds to the BBQ outlet Gas It BBQ Fitting including Housing, GI-ACCS-016 - GAS IT Leisure Gas Bottles, Gas Cylincers and Gas Tanks - Catering, Motorhome, Campervan, Caravan, Farrier and Road Repair Refillable Gas Solutions. so just a single piece of 8mm copper pipe between them, the BBQ outlet is a valve that (should) closes off when the insert is removed.
I only put 3 litres in to check for leaks before I went for the full fill.

I’d be disconnecting the outlet hose from the solenoid on the tank & operating the solenoid to see if it’s opening, if you’ve got gas there, reconnect & do the same at the outlet of the regulator.

 

[Grim Reaper]

OK, It was my fault... the BBQ valve that had the gas feed coming in from the bottom, which I needed to come in from the top, so I changed the feed & blanking plugs over on, doesn't work that way around , reversed the fittings again and all is well.

 

[moomin-j]

@Grim Reaper - glad you found out the problem and got sorted.

Well, I thought things were going fine...
Tried the gas hob - it no worky!!
Spoke to the conversion company who are as mystified as to why it has suddenly stopped working again, but have (without any problems) ordered another new tank and associated in built valves etc.
Just waiting for delivery from Propex , before we confirm an installation date.
Looks like for the next few trips I will be taking spare gas bottles for a brew and BBQ and carrying them in Buster.
Apart from pre booked weekend camping trips, our main family 2 week holiday to Cornwall / Devon is coming up soon, so this needs to be working by then.

I'll let you know when working again and if we can work out what is broken.
It can't be much that is wrong, as it is a pretty simple system - just frustrated that it is so infrequent and no sort of pattern to it.