Hopefully, this is the last post I need to make about our HiLo Surf roof. It is no more, it is an ex-roof!
A huge round of applause to Vanmax Poptops…They took on the challenge and were more than equal to it. We have now got a spanking new roof that doesn’t leak, has no condensation build up and doesn’t self harm. In fact, it is a better product even if the Surf roof had been as advertised. It is approximately the same height profile and gives slightly more headroom inside when closed, is a wider aperture and gives plenty of height when open. It is much easier to open and close than the Surf and runs more quietly on the road - no creaks or groans (from the roof) on uneven ground either.
We have no roof bed (hence the higher headroom when closed) and had made a particular set of choices, all of which were more than satisfied by Vanmax. Notably, we asked for midge nets (very fine mesh!), which they chased down, and then exceeded our expectations with a method of stowing the canvas.
Given that I wouldn’t have started from here, there are a few pre-existing compromises that we need to live with, so before anyone judges the finishing it would be only fair to view a Vanmax “clean” conversion if you were thinking of getting one fitted to a new conversion. But for those of us with broken HiLo Surf roofs, this is absolutely the bogs dollocks. I suspect there will be a growing “community” of ex-Surfers, so this is for you:
In order to retrofit this, Vanmax ripped out (very carefully!) the whole Surf roof and frame, stripping it back and cutting a wider opening. [Please note that the "in progress" pictures were supplied by Vanmax]
The Surf cut-out was offset further forward and they thought it might need additional plate at the front, but because of the cunning “cassette” design of the Vanmax, this proved unnecessary.
The nose-cone design also means that those holes in the front are never to be seen again – so no remedial bodywork required. The lighting was dismantled and re-used and the existing back cupboard was minimally adapted – it might have been more difficult if we’d wanted a roof bed. Rather than spend another £400+ on a new headlining we decided to live with a spliced carpet in the cab (and HiLo had wrecked the finish of the original anyway).
The work took 3 weeks, but this is in part due to the “experimental” nature of the job. Since picking it up from their workshop I’ve driven 1,000 miles, camped 2 nights in it and operated the roof 10 times. Obviously this is early days, but by this point with the Surf it had leaked like a teabag, abraded both sides and cut itself holes in the canvas, and been as breathable as a plastic bag. So, the prognosis is good. Vanmax were excellent to deal with, thoughtful, flexible, helpful and willing to find a solution in difficult circumstances – they are about 370 miles away for a start! I made a deliberate choice to go directly to a manufacturer rather than a fitter after lots of conversations. Given the way the Vanmax is built, my guess is that a good fitter would now be able to do the same job with a Vanmax now we have “proof of concept”.
Now the painful bit. Replacing the Surf cost us in the order of £5k including removal of the old roof and a replacement solar panel – obviously fitting a roof to a new conversion would be cheaper! Overall, we have shelled out around £11k for a poptop roof, including the original Surf and legal fees. We lost three and a half years of camper van use and 3 cancelled holidays, learnt more about the Consumer Rights Act than a layman really ought to, missed about 10 days’ work delivering the van to different workshops, put 2,500 unnecessary miles on the vehicle and lost endless nights’ sleep. We are classed as creditors to HiLo Roof Company Ltd as we have an outstanding warranty claim, but given that they owe £950,000 to other people, including HMRC, we’re not going to see anything out of the liquidation. Leaves a bitter taste when you find out the shenanigans that have gone on to “protect” the directors of HiLo and the fact that their Sport product has risen phoenix-like from the ashes of our dreams – it’s probably all legal, but it’s certainly not ethical in my opinion, if anyone else cares about that kind of thing.
Anyone out there with a Surf roof would do well to look up Vanmax Poptops. Other options may be available, but no other manufacturers or fitters came forward with a viable plan despite lots of enquiries. I also reckon Vanmax would be a really good contender from scratch for us, but that’s a whole different story that would lead to discussions about “best”. I can objectively say that the quality of manufacture is very high, product design makes an excellent compromise between simplicity and van height, and the customer service is superb. It also comes with a 3-year warranty, which I hope I don’t need to use.
Good luck to anyone else with a Surf roof, there is a way out of your mess and if you need anything, just ask.
A huge round of applause to Vanmax Poptops…They took on the challenge and were more than equal to it. We have now got a spanking new roof that doesn’t leak, has no condensation build up and doesn’t self harm. In fact, it is a better product even if the Surf roof had been as advertised. It is approximately the same height profile and gives slightly more headroom inside when closed, is a wider aperture and gives plenty of height when open. It is much easier to open and close than the Surf and runs more quietly on the road - no creaks or groans (from the roof) on uneven ground either.
We have no roof bed (hence the higher headroom when closed) and had made a particular set of choices, all of which were more than satisfied by Vanmax. Notably, we asked for midge nets (very fine mesh!), which they chased down, and then exceeded our expectations with a method of stowing the canvas.
Given that I wouldn’t have started from here, there are a few pre-existing compromises that we need to live with, so before anyone judges the finishing it would be only fair to view a Vanmax “clean” conversion if you were thinking of getting one fitted to a new conversion. But for those of us with broken HiLo Surf roofs, this is absolutely the bogs dollocks. I suspect there will be a growing “community” of ex-Surfers, so this is for you:
In order to retrofit this, Vanmax ripped out (very carefully!) the whole Surf roof and frame, stripping it back and cutting a wider opening. [Please note that the "in progress" pictures were supplied by Vanmax]
The Surf cut-out was offset further forward and they thought it might need additional plate at the front, but because of the cunning “cassette” design of the Vanmax, this proved unnecessary.
The nose-cone design also means that those holes in the front are never to be seen again – so no remedial bodywork required. The lighting was dismantled and re-used and the existing back cupboard was minimally adapted – it might have been more difficult if we’d wanted a roof bed. Rather than spend another £400+ on a new headlining we decided to live with a spliced carpet in the cab (and HiLo had wrecked the finish of the original anyway).
The work took 3 weeks, but this is in part due to the “experimental” nature of the job. Since picking it up from their workshop I’ve driven 1,000 miles, camped 2 nights in it and operated the roof 10 times. Obviously this is early days, but by this point with the Surf it had leaked like a teabag, abraded both sides and cut itself holes in the canvas, and been as breathable as a plastic bag. So, the prognosis is good. Vanmax were excellent to deal with, thoughtful, flexible, helpful and willing to find a solution in difficult circumstances – they are about 370 miles away for a start! I made a deliberate choice to go directly to a manufacturer rather than a fitter after lots of conversations. Given the way the Vanmax is built, my guess is that a good fitter would now be able to do the same job with a Vanmax now we have “proof of concept”.
Now the painful bit. Replacing the Surf cost us in the order of £5k including removal of the old roof and a replacement solar panel – obviously fitting a roof to a new conversion would be cheaper! Overall, we have shelled out around £11k for a poptop roof, including the original Surf and legal fees. We lost three and a half years of camper van use and 3 cancelled holidays, learnt more about the Consumer Rights Act than a layman really ought to, missed about 10 days’ work delivering the van to different workshops, put 2,500 unnecessary miles on the vehicle and lost endless nights’ sleep. We are classed as creditors to HiLo Roof Company Ltd as we have an outstanding warranty claim, but given that they owe £950,000 to other people, including HMRC, we’re not going to see anything out of the liquidation. Leaves a bitter taste when you find out the shenanigans that have gone on to “protect” the directors of HiLo and the fact that their Sport product has risen phoenix-like from the ashes of our dreams – it’s probably all legal, but it’s certainly not ethical in my opinion, if anyone else cares about that kind of thing.
Anyone out there with a Surf roof would do well to look up Vanmax Poptops. Other options may be available, but no other manufacturers or fitters came forward with a viable plan despite lots of enquiries. I also reckon Vanmax would be a really good contender from scratch for us, but that’s a whole different story that would lead to discussions about “best”. I can objectively say that the quality of manufacture is very high, product design makes an excellent compromise between simplicity and van height, and the customer service is superb. It also comes with a 3-year warranty, which I hope I don’t need to use.
Good luck to anyone else with a Surf roof, there is a way out of your mess and if you need anything, just ask.
