Lead Crystal Batteries

[Sniggib]

Hi all,

Lead crystal batteries.....go!

They seem to be the perfect solution between SLA / AGM / Gel and LiFePo4? A good compromise between ability to discharge to 0V meaning better capacity and also cost compared with LiFePo4. It also seems to avoid the issues with strict temp control and damage due to total discharge over LiFePo4

Am I missing something?

Found this and very tempted.....

Lead Crystal battery for 12V 90Ah - AMC9009 | Allbatteries.co.uk

Cheers,

 

[t0mb0]

That is interesting, I’ve never seen those before. Obviously not the weight savings you get with lithium, but that’s not a big factor for most people. Definitely looks like less associated faff needed, no temperature cutoffs etc.

It wasn’t completely clear from the tech specs pdf what the optimum charge cycle is. One of them kind of looks like a standard three stage process but it’s probably worth giving them a ring to check it’s compatible with whatever charger you’re using and which profile to go for. Might just be standard 14.7v AGM hopefully.

 

[CAB]

I'd do a bit of googling before I ordered if I were you.

When there isn't even a Wikipedia page on it I would say the claims are a bit suspect. Others I found have said it is just an AGM with a different electrolyte.

I would want to see a fully independent verification of the discharge capacity before I shelled out.

 

[Qnapper]

They are just AGM's....................

 

[t0mb0]

They are just AGM's....................

They are AGM with a different electrolyte. If the specs are to be trusted though, this actually makes them really quite different with respect to some key characteristics such as lifetime and safe depth of discharge. I haven’t seen any serious independent measurement/review of them so it’s hard to tell whether the claimed specs are accurate.

 

[RayF]

Lead Carbon batteries could also be worth a look. They are reputed to behave similarly to lithium

 

[RedUn]

@Dellmassive is the local battery guru... I've never heard of them personally!

 

[Phil_G]

Lots of data & test reports here

 

[t0mb0]

Lots of data & test reports here

Great find @Phil_G, I’ll have a read through those. I am quite intrigued, if the claims stack up these could be a real fit and forget option, they seem to do away with a lot of the worries associated with some of the competing technologies.

 

[Sniggib]

Thanks all.

Will check out the link @Phil_G

It does seem that the main difference is the elctrolyte is SiO2.

If they check out then I am very tempted as they seem to really hit the balance between cost, power output and also not as finicklity as lithium.

I'll keep researching.

Cheers,

 

[Sniggib]

Lead Carbon batteries could also be worth a look. They are reputed to behave similarly to lithium

I've seen these, but couldn't really tell them apart in terms of characteristics to AGM?

 

[t0mb0]

Some guy in one of the links on that forum torture tested one by flattening it completely every day for months or something really quite extreme like that. Basically it seems the robustness claims stack up, a traditional lead acid battery died a few days in to the same process (unsurprisingly).

The thing I wonder though, and haven’t seen yet, is how the voltage holds up in low SoC. A safe deep discharge is great for battery longevity but if the voltage goes low enough to cause issues with fridge cutoffs etc, then it’s a bit less useful. Lithium obviously has a very flat voltage profile down to relatively low SoC.

 

[Sniggib]

Yes just watched that review, seems to prove out the claims.

Also read several reviews on boat forums regarding use. One review had some issues which seemed to relate to transport damage and then knock on effects, all other reviews are very positive.

It does seem though that although they can be taken down to 0V it is still recommended to keep them at approx. 50% or more to prolong life etc. Perhaps it is best overall to keep them charged as per an AGM, but with the added ability that if your stuck then you can use the whole battery without risk of destroying it, just maybe reducing life a little. i.e. plan as if it was an AGM, but with less worry about flattening it. Though then this beings the cost into question again!

Also seen this

20200320 Crystal® Battery Catalog (adobe.com)

from a manufacturer in Germany, the charging profile graphs are not something I know how to read (any battery people want to review?) but they are pretty adamant that charging them batteries correctly is needed, they offer their own charger to this.

Perhaps some further research on charging them properly / if DC-DC chargers will accept / charge them correctly.

Also, I am seriously struggling to find any for sale in the UK!

 

[t0mb0]

Yes just watched that review, seems to prove out the claims.

Also read several reviews on boat forums regarding use. One review had some issues which seemed to relate to transport damage and then knock on effects, all other reviews are very positive.

It does seem though that although they can be taken down to 0V it is still recommended to keep them at approx. 50% or more to prolong life etc. Perhaps it is best overall to keep them charged as per an AGM, but with the added ability that if your stuck then you can use the whole battery without risk of destroying it, just maybe reducing life a little. i.e. plan as if it was an AGM, but with less worry about flattening it. Though then this beings the cost into question again!

Also seen this

20200320 Crystal® Battery Catalog (adobe.com)

from a manufacturer in Germany, the charging profile graphs are not something I know how to read (any battery people want to review?) but they are pretty adamant that charging them batteries correctly is needed, they offer their own charger to this.

Perhaps some further research on charging them properly / if DC-DC chargers will accept / charge them correctly.

Also, I am seriously struggling to find any for sale in the UK!

Yes, the rated number of charge cycles does go up with shallower discharges, but the numbers are miles better than AGM. Even for 100% DoD it’s still rated for about 600 cycles, and at 80% DoD it’s up to about 1500 cycles. These numbers are so high you practically don’t ever need to worry about it for a camper style application.

 

[Sniggib]

Yes definitely, it all seems to stack up to my non initiated eye.

If it is all correct then it would probably remove my need for a second leisure battery.

May contact a manufacturer and see if they have a UK distributer to chat to.

 

[Sniggib]

Spotted this on another boat forum;

Lead crystal batteries - Taking the plunge | YBW Forum

Looks as though the charging profile of Lead Crystal matches that of a Gel battery so potential.

Contacted a supplier in Germany, will see what they have to say!

Cheers,

 

[t0mb0]

Spotted this on another boat forum;

Lead crystal batteries - Taking the plunge | YBW Forum

Looks as though the charging profile of Lead Crystal matches that of a Gel battery so potential.

Contacted a supplier in Germany, will see what they have to say!

Cheers,

That thread also claims they need high charging amps when below 50% charge, e.g. 30A for a 100Ah battery. Not a problem for a DC-DC but definitely a problem for solar. Seems a bit of an odd requirement to me but definitely worth checking.

 

[Sniggib]

Hmmmm, everything I find is either discontinued, or websites of manufacturers that lead to dead ends, something up I think! Perhaps the technology never really worked out.

GALAX-E Leisure Batteries | MotorhomeFun | The Motorhome Support and Social Network

 

[Qnapper]

I have been a member of MotorhomeFun since 2010 and some very knowledgable members on there.

As I stated on my first post here they are just AGM's - I will stick with AGM's for now.........................

 

[Phil_G]

AGMs full of sand