Inverter help please

[Buzznitro]

Hello everyone need your help on this one, I think I may have dropped a B0!!xxxx.
I have installed a 1500w with max 3000w inverter into my van from the battery cable length aprox 300mm with a 150amp dc circuit breaker attached to the inverter.
cable size 25mm2. all working until I connected a Tassimo coffee machine 1300w to it, it started up coffee came out and the breaker kicked in, no more coffee. battery size 2 x extreme AGM 110amH, 220 combined.
What have I done wrong, please be nice but a little banter is expected,

Thanks in advance.

 

[Dellmassive]

got any pics?

which tassimo?

circuit breakers are not got, especially for high currents..... (they just get hott)


we need to check the specs and how much current you are pulling....

but ill assume you need to swap that breaker for a decent ANL 200A fusde and holder.

 

[Dellmassive]

heres a basic ANL fuse and holder example . . .

( I've used all three of these styles so can vouch for them)

(remember pulling 100A or above is serious stuff !!, You MUST fuse correctly, use correct gauge cable, use the same gauge cable for the ground, use a very good ground point, tight connectors . . . etc etc . . . . failure to do this will end up with high resistance = melted cables/fuse holders/connectors or worse an electrical fire)

KOLACEN ANL Gold Plated Fuse 200 Amp + ANL Fuse Holder Black 1 Pack: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike

KOLACEN ANL Gold Plated Fuse 200 Amp + ANL Fuse Holder Black 1 Pack: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike

amzn.to

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This style has an integrated meter

https://amzn.to/2V0uvcH





.

heres a twin version.

Yihaoel Gold Red Led Voltage Display 2 Anl Fuse Holder 0 2 4 Ga 200 Amp 200A : Amazon.co.uk: Automotive

Buy Yihaoel Gold Red Led Voltage Display 2 Anl Fuse Holder 0 2 4 Ga 200 Amp 200A at Amazon UK. Free delivery on eligible orders.

amzn.to

 

[Dellmassive]

here is the MEGA style (like MIDI but bigger)


********

Mega Link Fuse Holder

Single mega link fuse holder with protective cover. Fuse & cable are secured via 2 x M8 studs. Side or end cable entry. Stackable to make a multi-fuse block.

www.12voltplanet.co.uk

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Mega Link Fuses

Mega link fuses used for protecting very high current circuits in auto, marine & leisure applications. Available in current ratings from 40A to 500A.

www.12voltplanet.co.uk

 

[Dellmassive]

and more here:

ROSENICE Car Fuse Holder Box for 1 Mega-Backup (M8 Threaded) : Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

ROSENICE Car Fuse Holder Box for 1 Mega-Backup (M8 Threaded) : Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

amzn.to

....

Mega Fuse Holder *with Free 125amp Light Blue Fuse* Car Van Truck Clip Lid Suits 100amp to 500amp High Current : Amazon.co.uk: Toys & Games

Mega Fuse Holder *with Free 125amp Light Blue Fuse* Car Van Truck Clip Lid Suits 100amp to 500amp High Current : Amazon.co.uk: Toys & Games

amzn.to

****

All Trade Direct 200 Amp Mega Fuse Blue: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike

Buy All Trade Direct 200 Amp Mega Fuse Blue at Amazon UK. Free delivery on eligible orders.

amzn.to

 

[rover220]

25mm cable undersized for 3000w.

 

[Dellmassive]

RECOMMENDED INVERTER CABLE AND BREAKER OR FUSE SIZES

RECOMMENDED INVERTER CABLE AND BREAKER OR FUSE SIZES

www.t6forum.com

.

 

[Phil_G]

Most consumer electrical devices draw a higher current until the heating element is up to temperature. Your 1300w machine might briefly draw more than that, enough to trip your breaker. Personally I cringe when people talk about 3kw 12v inverters. 250 amps is just cruel, thats cranking current for a small car

 

[Dellmassive]

Most consumer electrical devices draw a higher current until the heating element is up to temperature. Your 1300w machine might briefly draw more than that, enough to trip your breaker. Personally I cringe when people talk about 3kw 12v inverters. 250 amps is just cruel, thats cranking current for a small car.

Agreed . . . . But It can be done provided you have enough reserve battery capacity..

Lithium helps here of course.

But hes got twin 110ah AGMs so should be ok for a few coffees..... we need to see the coffee machine spec to determine the in rush of the heater.

We dont know what type of system he has for recharging these AGMs, assuming there is no EHU, then it must be dc-dc or Solor . . . . .

In either case it will take a while to replenish the power drawn from the battery bank.


But I'm with him.....

I love my coffee and I'd rather a Tassimo vs an instant any day of the week.

But I also understand it would prematurely reduce the life cycles of theose AGMs...

But fresh proper(ish) coffee vs a couple of new AGMs every 3yrs . . . . Done.


Oh. . . . That's also assuming a good quality pure sine inverter ( I use Cotek (samlex) and Victron ) 200w - 1500w versions.

 

[Blitz]

Just throwing this in here. I guess most people dont use electric kettles for the same reason. I dont so never needed to check the amp rating.

 

[Buzznitro]

Hi Gents, wow what a response, thanks, this is my coffee machine VIVY 2 - real black coffee machine, I dont like coffee but my mum loves it as shes had the dreaded "C" im going to keep her happy, oh and the wife. I realise that I've made mistakes my inverter is this 1500w pure sine wave inverter with remote control 12V but it's GREEN incolour and with 2 x UK sockets. I'm not using the coffee machine very often but when Mam needs one then it's there.

My solar set up is this, Panel, 12V solar panels charging kits for caravans, motorhomes, boats, yachts, marine
controller from Travelvolts, Redarc BCDC1240D | travelvolts,
240v battery charger https://www.travelvolts.net/product-page/victron-ip65-12-15

battery monitor

volt meters and battery monitors for camper vans

www.travelvolts.net

hope this helps

 

[Buzznitro]

This was my circuit breaker now in bits in bin

 

[Dellmassive]

TASSIMO VIVY 2

spec just says 1300w . . .




***************


coffee machine looks good...

inverter looks ok, 1500-3000W . .

and the rest of the kit looks good.

**************


so the problem is the resettable 150A breaker....

your 1300w coffee machine is drawing around the 150A causing the breaker to get hot and trip.


look at swapping out the 150A breaker for a 200A ANL/MEGA solid fuse holder and restest...

****************


have you got a battery monitor? . . . . that will help you get a gauge of how much power/amps is going in and out of the system.



for your setup id recomend 2x BM2 voltage monitors (one on starter and one on AUX bank)

and a Victron SmartShunt on the AUX bank that will show you the AMPS being drawn in/out of the battery bank.

(or possibly a DC clamp meter as a minimum)

***

Battery Monitoring -- How I Done It --

Battery Monitoring -- How I Done It -- Part #1 Battery monitoring is a very important part of your 12v system . . . . whether its just the vans starter battery or your leisure setup keeping an eye on the power in your battery bank will keep you from breaking down and make sure your weekends...

www.t6forum.com

***


**************************************************
Dellmassive`s -- "how I Done It" -- Thread
**************************************************
Kit List And Stuff -- How I Done It & What I Use --
**************************************************

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[Dellmassive]

oh also, low battery or low voltage from the Aux bank will cause the Inverter to draw excessive current. (which will blow the breaker)

so make sure the battery bank in not being drawn down too low by the inverter . . . . . (ie 11.5v under load)

if the inverter is trying to draw to much power the Aux battery bank voltage will drop, in this case you can start the vans engine which will help raise the volatrge of the battery bank and offer an extra 40A of power from your Redarc.


you might be pulling too much current with a low battery bank SOC . . . .

 

[Buzznitro]

Fantastic thanks so much for your help do you think my cables are the correct size, the table I was looking at before I posted this said 4/0 AWG, not 4 AWG?

 

[Dellmassive]

You said 25mm2, which is right on the limit for 150A.

12v planet show the 25mm2 at 170A.

The good thing is your cable run is short.

I would replace the breaker for a proper fuse....

Then use a meter to test the current that's being drawn through the cable under load.... ie 150A. Etc.

A very basic test is temp... the cable will start to get warm if not hot if it's under rated.... so test the cable and see if it gets warm/hot after making 4x coffees.

If any of the above tests show you are pulling more current than the 25mm2 can handle...then upgrade the cable to a bigger size.


.
.

 

[Buzznitro]

Dell would you upgrade the cable anyway say 50mm2, is there a danger if I keep what just on the boarder!!??

 

[Pauly]

From the link to your invertor

FOR INDUCTIVE LOAD
If connecting with inductive loads (e.g. Compressor, Pump, old CRT TV, Refrigerator, Ice conditioner, Air conditioner, Relays, Coffee maker, Fluorescent lamp, Vacuum cleaner), please choose inverter whose rate power is 3-7 times higher than the load's rate power. For example, for a 150w refrigerator, please choose a 1000w inverter or higher; for a 800w air conditioner, please choose 2500w inverter or higher.
FOR RESISTIVE LOAD
If connecting with resistive loads (e.g. Computer, LED TV, Fan, Scanner, Fax machine, Duplicator, Sound system, Juice extractor, Heater, Electric cooker, microwave, crock pot), please choose inverter whose continuous power is a little higher than the load's rate power. For example, for loads near 700w, it's better to choose inverter with continuous power more than 800w.

 

[Blitz]

I can't afford coffee then

 

[Dellmassive]

Dell would you upgrade the cable anyway say 50mm2, is there a danger if I keep what just on the boarder!!??

my take on this is that you need to test the setup.

you may find that the coffee machine is maxed out at 1300W flat (circa 130A) and no more, you may find that it surges above 1300W

so before you do anything (appart from change the breaker for a fuse) . . . . id test the power draw,

you can do this with a DC clamp meter . . like this . .

AOPUTTRIVER Digital Clamp Meter Bluetooth Multimeter AP-570C-APP 4000 Counts Auto Range AC/DC Voltage Current Resistance Capacitance Frequency Testing LCD Backlight: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike

AOPUTTRIVER Digital Clamp Meter Bluetooth Multimeter AP-570C-APP 4000 Counts Auto Range AC/DC Voltage Current Resistance Capacitance Frequency Testing LCD Backlight: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike

amzn.to

this will tell you what you need to do further . . . . if anything. . . .ie upgrade the power feed cables.


or.


if you dont want to get a meter . . . then for piece of mind swap out the cables for larger . . . . you can go as large a-cable as the crimp end will allow, bigger is always better.

but your existing cables may be ok (due to the very short cable lengh)