Intermittent ignition key won't turn

[veearrsix]

The van is a 2014 T5.1 Shuttle DSG. Occasionally, when I go to start the van the key will only turn to position 1, it sort of feels like it would if the steering lock was on (it isn't, the steering wheel is free), sometimes pushing harder on the brake pedal will allow the key to turn, although this could very well be coincidence. It feels like it has a lock to stop the van being started without the brake pedal being pushed OR if the gearbox isn't in park. I have read a few posts about the van not starting, but they sound like the keys is turning, but nothing is happening, thats not the issue I'm having.

I'm wondering if its an issue with the brake pedal switch or similar (although I'm focusing on the brake purely because once or twice pushing the pedal harder solved the problem). It does seem to be getting worse, I had one episode where i had to keep removing the key for about 10 minutes before it finally turned and started. Just a note on that episode, the wheels were turned to point to the left, although the steering lock definitely wasn't engaged.

Anyone else had this issue?

 

[veearrsix]

I've been living with this for a few weeks now, most of the time when it happens I just have to take the key out and try again maybe once or wife for it too decide to turn. However today it has refused to sort itself.

My first thought was brake pedal switch, so I have checked live data using obdeleven and the brake pedal is registered as being pressed every time, so I'm ruling that out. Unfortunately there are no (relevant) faults logged for me to investigate. Even clearing the unrelated faults doesn't coax the key into wanting to turn.

Also, almost every time I turn the van off (when it has been running) I get an 'Error brakes return to workshop' message. I had been ignoring this as the brakes work perfectly and have plenty of life left in both pads and discs, but this feels like it might be related. Frustratingly, this doesn't seem to log a fault, so I'm at a loss as to why I get this message.

 

[airhoguk]

Does the cable from the dog selector to the ignition barrel need adjusting? Perhaps move the dsg selector about to see if the key turns. Someone on the t4 forum had a similar problem

 

[veearrsix]

Turns out it was a mechanical issue with the internals of the ignition switch (not barrel or steering lock), I ended up removing and stripping the whole steering lock, only to find it was the switch screwed to the end (screws are hidden under red paint). Cheap fix in the end, but a bit of a faff. Airbag, Steering wheel, indicator stalks off to let me get to the sheer bolts which I used a small cold chisel to rotate them.

Also, if anyone does, for any reason remove the barrel, don't do what I did and turn the shaft that the barrel turns, backwards just to see if a screwdriver will start the van, I turned it just a touch too far and it completely locked up the steering lock. Mine doesn't have that additional security feature anymore as stripping it down when it's locked does a little bit of damage. Little bit of upfront info would have saved me a good few hours of work!

 

[Broadside]

My ignition barrel has started to become problematic, it turns fine to position 1 and 2 but sometimes won’t turn to position 3 to start the engine.

Is this time a new ignition barrel or can some sort of lubricant be used in the barrel?

 

[veearrsix]

My ignition barrel has started to become problematic, it turns fine to position 1 and 2 but sometimes won’t turn to position 3 to start the engine.

Is this time a new ignition barrel or can some sort of lubricant be used in the barrel?

The issue I had was a worn/broken ignition switch (on the back of the barrel), the barrel was fine.

 

[Howzat]

Changing my switch and looking for some guidance.
Got the top cowel off fine but it looks like I need to remove the steering wheel to remove the bottom cowel.
Once I get that off will I be able to access the screws under the red paint or will there be further steps required to get access?

 

[Pauly]

Steering wheel is the first step (well after the airbag) then you can remove the cowl and access the steering column trims etc

 

[veearrsix]

I'm pretty sure you can do it with the wheel on, it's been a while so I can remember. There should be a couple of screws holding the cowl on, I think they are near the rear, accessed from below.

 

[veearrsix]

AHH, reading my old post, the wheel needs to come off anyway.

 

[Howzat]

So got there in the end.

New back switch purchased then steering wheel off, bottom cowel off, unplug switch and undo the 2 screws under the red paint to remove the switch. New switch in and problem still there grrr. So it wasn't the switch itself.
After some fiddling about it seems the barrel at the front has become loose. It's moving out from the main assembly about 2 or 3 mm, which I thought was normal, so they key is losing contact with the switch at the back.
If i push the barrel back flush with the assembly then full contact with the switch is restored.
Temporary fix for now was 3 cable ties. 1 around the barrel then 2 more through this at the top and bottom to pull it back towards the switch. Working perfect now, radio says on when the ignition is switched off until key is removed, as it should be, but looking for a more permanent solution.

Anyone fixed a similar issue?
Faffing with the ignition barrel in situ doesn't seem too appealing but neither does removing the whole assembly as I think the bolts holding it in have to be sheared off to get it out.

 

[Howzat]

Airbag, Steering wheel, indicator stalks off to let me get to the sheer bolts which I used a small cold chisel to rotate them.

I think I'll wait until my temporary fix fails before tacking this. You never know, the temporary fix may last longer than the van.

 

[Broadside]

So got there in the end.

New back switch purchased then steering wheel off, bottom cowel off, unplug switch and undo the 2 screws under the red paint to remove the switch. New switch in and problem still there grrr. So it wasn't the switch itself.
After some fiddling about it seems the barrel at the front has become loose. It's moving out from the main assembly about 2 or 3 mm, which I thought was normal, so they key is losing contact with the switch at the back.
If i push the barrel back flush with the assembly then full contact with the switch is restored.
Temporary fix for now was 3 cable ties. 1 around the barrel then 2 more through this at the top and bottom to pull it back towards the switch. Working perfect now, radio says on when the ignition is switched off until key is removed, as it should be, but looking for a more permanent solution.

Anyone fixed a similar issue?
Faffing with the ignition barrel in situ doesn't seem too appealing but neither does removing the whole assembly as I think the bolts holding it in have to be sheared off to get it out.

Good update, thank you. Mine is still troublesome, camping in Germany at the moment and it takes 5-10 turns of the barrel before it starts so I will need to get it fixed very soon.

 

[Howzat]

Quick guide for swapping out the ignition switch.

Get a new switch. OEM shown at the bottom.



1. Unclip the top cowel and tilt it towards the MFD dispaly. Trim tools may help.
2. Follow the excellent guide by @Pauly to remove the airbag and steering wheel.

NOTE: You MUST disconnect the battery BEFORE unplugging the airbag to avoid accidental deployment.
Can't stress this enough other than to say DISCONNECT THE BATTERY BEFORE UNPLUGING THE AIRBAG!!!!

3. Remove the 2 torx screws (t25?) from the bottom cowel and remove the cowel by wiggling and pulling towards you.


4. Unplug the ignition switch. Lift the red tab then pull the plug. (the pic below shows it with the switch already out just for reference)


5. Scrape away the red paint and undo the 2 grub screws. A few turns should be enough, no need to fully remove them. Now remove switch.


The picture below shows the inside of the barrel with the switch removed. That pin pushes out into the switch when the key is inserted and turns the switch when the key is turned.



Push the new switch in (with the key removed from the ignition) then tighten the grub screws and reinsert the plug.

TIP: Best to test the new switch before fully reassembling BUT BUT BUT you SHOULD plug the airbag and steering wheel control plugs in before doing this to avoid error codes. You could skip this if you have a code reader that can remove faults, but I'd suggest just plugging them in to avoid that.
Simply slot the wheel back on (but dont do the nut) THEN plug in the airbag and steering controls and just rest the airbag against the wheel but dont clip it back in yet.

Now connect the battery and test the ignition.
If the van starts then all is good.

Go back and DISCONNECT THE BATTERY, unplug the airbag and steering control plugs again, remove wheel and then you can start the full reassembly by first connecting the bottom cowel, then the steering wheel and it's spline, then the plugs for the airbag and steering controls, then push the airbag into the clips on the steering wheel, then finally clip in the top cowel.

JOB DONE.

 

[veearrsix]

My issue was the switch, so not sure how to fix the barrel. However, I would recommend if you do start to play with the barrel/steering lock to remove it before hand.

The shear bolts you mention are used when installing, so they have lready been sheared off. So removing those bolts needs some careful manipulation using a cold chisel to get the to rotate. Mine weren't that tight, so it likely sounds like a worse job than it actually is. I replaced the headless bolts with some Allen bolts ( if a thief has a go, they won't check to see what type of bolts are there, they will just snap it off with a scaffold tube).

The barrel is easy to remove as I recall, although I can't remember how I did it! What I do remember as it's now deeply ingrained in my memory is the complete faff trying to reset the steering lock if you decide to use a screwdriver (or similar) to turn the shaft once the barrel is removed.

If you do remove the barrel and are tempted to see if some other device will start the van (even if it's to try and identify where the issue is) take a step back and don't do it. You only have to go a fraction past where the barrel would normally stop and the steering lock will completely lock (it's another security feature, likely to prevent theives popping out the barrel and starting the van with a screwdriver). It is possible to reset, although incredibly difficult and if you get it wrong (or stupidly do it again like me) you will probably have to leaves some parts out when you rebuild the steering lock.