H4's With Leds?

Discussion in 'Electrics, Lighting, ICE, Security' started by Stay Frosty, 1 Nov 2019.

  1. Stay Frosty

    Stay Frosty Senior Member T6 Guru

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    As thread title but reading between the lines on the various LED lookalike H4 alternatives it's starting to sound like unless you stick LED lamps in these projector type lights and run dip and main beam together you're not actually getting much more light on the road in front of you.

    Don't get me wrong I've got so close to pulling the trigger on these bad boys with their sequential flashiness but the thought of putting a dreary halogen or 20 watt LED lamp in the housing, which is what most of these Luminon and Twenty20 lamps are and expecting the lumen output to be better than a 50 watt halogen lamp is a tad optimistic.

    I appreciate the colour rendition from an LED lamp will be closer to daylight but I use a 20 watt LED spotlight at work at times and while it's great at lighting up a corner of a loft I wouldn't want to drive at night behind two of them.

    To this end has anyone put LED H4 lamps in their H4 headlights and taken a night time picture along the lines of the those in the various existing threads, I just can't help thinking that the higher colour temperature of LED lamps is being confused with the duller warm white rendition from halogen lamps... as it happens I do prefer that crisp white colour too.
     
    Dilbert likes this.
  2. Loz

    Loz California 204 DSG 4Motion MY17 VCDS User Admin Moderator VIP Member

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    Have a look at the Headlight Revolution YouTube channel they have tests on there.
    Some members did look at the Phillips H4 but the price was about £120.
     
  3. Paynewright

    Paynewright Member VIP Member T6 Pro

    On the Lotus Seven club forum (Caterhams) there have been many discussions on headlights / bulbs as they use a light unit first around in the 60/70’s. The two best upgrades seem to be Wipac freeform headlamp units where the reflector focuses the beam rather than the lens (T6’s have the reflector focus arrangement). The second upgrade is LED H4 bulbs from Classic Car LEDs.

    I think I’m going to try a pair of these.

    Ian
     
  4. Paynewright

    Paynewright Member VIP Member T6 Pro

  5. andys

    andys Senior Member VIP Member T6 Legend

    As in the other thread, mine have been great but you can’t buy them any more
     
  6. Stay Frosty

    Stay Frosty Senior Member T6 Guru

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    Cheers gents that image from the Lotus 7 forum gives an idea of what I think is most users perception of an improvement after trying LED lamps and it's the daylight colour rendition rather than an actual increase in Lumen output.

    I've watched that YouTube channel quite a few times @Loz and was surprised how many US cars use H4 lamps, they don't rubbish these lamps like they would have say 18 months ago but unfortunately the favoured makes they promote don't seem to make it over here but then as with @andys you can take a punt on some £30 ones by way of an experiment, just a shame the adverts for the bargains fall into outlandish claims for lighting output as they try to attract the buyers attention.

    I got my LED drls from Autobulb Direct online but not prepared to fork out £110 for 20 watt Philips Ultinons, I know these lamps are efficient but I also know that a 20 watt chip will produce slightly less than 2,000 lumen at 6500k and probably only 1500 lumen when blended to produce the sickly warm white colour of a tungsten halogen lamp, hardly searchlight material.

    I've got some lamps bookmarked so I guess I had better put up or shut up at this point, there, that told me!:rolleyes:
     
  7. andys

    andys Senior Member VIP Member T6 Legend

    Mine wasn’t a complete shot in the dark though (sorry), I bought them as they’d just come top in a shootout on the Headlight Revolution channel at the time, so it might be worth trying whatever their current favourite is
     
  8. Stay Frosty

    Stay Frosty Senior Member T6 Guru

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    Well I've ordered some at £19.99 however her in drawers has ordered the new Lee Childs book at the same time to get free delivery (£20 and over) so mid week delivery at the earliest... won't be able to sleep in the meantime.:oops:
    Anyway apparently these bad boys are 36 watt, 72 watt per pair, great... hang on do they mean each lamp consumes 36w with both beams lighted at the same time meaning dip alone would be 18 watts... that's even less than the £100 odd ones... 2 watts less, if only @Dellmassive would do all the hard work for me!​
     
  9. t0mb0

    t0mb0 Senior Member VIP Member T6 Guru

    The reason the H4 headlights are useless isn’t the bulbs, it’s the awful reflector design. Sticking in new bulbs will result in a marginal improvement at best.
     
  10. andys

    andys Senior Member VIP Member T6 Legend

    Not true, mine are a massive improvement over the halogens!
     
    BillTunnell likes this.
  11. t0mb0

    t0mb0 Senior Member VIP Member T6 Guru

    That's interesting, you're the only person I've ever heard of get decent light out of those headlights. What bulbs are they?
     
  12. andys

    andys Senior Member VIP Member T6 Legend

    These What Have You Done To Your Van Today? Unfortunately you can’t buy them any more
     
  13. Stay Frosty

    Stay Frosty Senior Member T6 Guru

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    I'm tending to side with @andys here as we've not actually seen a side by side comparison picture on the forum with the H4 T6 lights powered by decent LED lamps.

    Projector lenses are a way of concentrating the light beam but realistically that's the same task that the big old reflector does in the H4 enclosure and unless the reflector is illuminating something outside the drivers field of vision ie. the tree tops where the heck is the light from the halogen going... I reckon the issue with H4 lights in the main is down to the yellowy halogen light produced versus the perceived improvement of a crisp white LED alternative.

    I'm not knocking the factory LED lights as I have no experience of their performance but I can't help thinking that as with the Caravelle H7 units if you were to put halogen lamps in as the light source then you might be underwhelmed with the resulting performance and let's face it driving with the main and dipped beams on at the same time would improve even the standard H4 output but how many seconds can you drive anywhere on main beam these days?

    One final thought and did anyone see the search lights at BusFest outside the main dance tents... they were reflector lights.
     
  14. Paynewright

    Paynewright Member VIP Member T6 Pro

    Noddy996 likes this.
  15. Dilbert

    Dilbert Just travelling... VIP Member T6 Guru

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    These look very interesting. :) Will look forward to when you report back.... :thumbsup:
     
  16. Stay Frosty

    Stay Frosty Senior Member T6 Guru

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    1.6A multiplied by 13V will give that 20 watts number again and from experience will be around 2,000 lumen at 6500Kelvin so 4,000 lumen on dip in total.

    Somewhere out there are going to be some H4 35 watt LEDs which should be a mid point in efficiency between lower halogen and higher efficiency HID lighting... who will post the first pictures?... cough... @andys ... cough, cough, it's only raining a little bit, yes I know it's dark too.:whistle:
     
  17. andys

    andys Senior Member VIP Member T6 Legend

    It’s not raining at all where I am, unfortunately that’s about 110 miles away from my van :)
    The pictures I posted were pretty blurry, I’ll try and take some better ones showing the cutoff etc
     
  18. Stay Frosty

    Stay Frosty Senior Member T6 Guru

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    Right, fell at the first hurdle... how do you get the plastic caps back on the headlights after fitting these huage LED lamps?

    Ok I didn't actually get as far as putting the LEDs in as it started to rain, in all fairness they weren't supposed to arrive until Wednesday but got back from the fireworks to find them on the doorstep, either way it doesn't look like there's enough room between the end of the fan on the LED and the inside of the plastic cap that covers the lamp mounting hole, anybody?
     
  19. andys

    andys Senior Member VIP Member T6 Legend

    Mine were tight but did go back on.
     
  20. Stay Frosty

    Stay Frosty Senior Member T6 Guru

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    Cheers @andys I'm hoping that's going to be the case here, it looks like it's possible to shove the lamp different distances through the keyed retaining disc part of the lamp into the headlight shell as well as rotate the lamp in the keyed disc.

    Both shoving and twisting will have an effect on the beam produced and ramming the lamp in too far might even make it hit the lamp hood mounted inside... I'm over thinking this though as it might be worth checking for lamp out displays before wrangling these bar stewards in.:confused:
     
    andys likes this.

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