DPF Monitor Odd Reading

JamieM

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H folks, hoping someone can advise what’s going on with the VAG DPF monitor readings I got.

Gen six Caravelle, BiTDI 204 ps, just turned 30k miles, drives smoothly, not used any oil yet and only seen/heard it regen once

DPF monitor showing 0g calculated soot mass, -40 input/output gas temp, and differential pressure ranging from 17 to 210hpa. Only thing it really does give me is time and miles since last regen, and ~19g oil ash residue

Following screenshots taken randomly driving on dual carriageway at 70mph and ~3000revs, last one at idle when stopped.

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IMG_5219.webp

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Meant to say, also did live data via both OBD11 v2 and Carista EVO dongles/apps, and same 0g & -40 temp readings

Could it be that the sensors are knackered, or could the DPF / EGR have been deleted/mapped out, or something else I should be looking for ?
 
only seen/heard it regen once
Does the indicated "188 miles since last DPF regen" fall into your ownership?


The engine can't do a regen with the sensor readings below.
1753447929605.webp


Could it be that the sensors are knackered,
They would give fault codes with such readings (open circuit).


could the DPF / EGR have been deleted/mapped out,
Possibly - especially if there are no fault codes because of implausible values along the exhaust.


BiTDI 204 ps, just turned 30k miles
last one at idle when stopped.
1753448126206.webp
Quite high pressure for the mileage and the conditions (idle, stopped) - a clogging DPF?
 
thanks for the response mmi

Does the indicated "188 miles since last DPF regen" fall into your ownership?
Yes, I pulled into my drive after a run, revs we’re up just over 1000 and fans sounded like a jet engine getting ready for takeoff, took it for a 40min round trip blast on the dual carriageway and when I got back all was normal. Didn’t have the DPF monitor at that point.

Quite high pressure for the mileage and the conditions (idle, stopped) - a clogging DPF?
Not sure, don’t really know what idle pressure should be, just ran the app again while idling on the drive and it’s around 11.8

How could I found out if there has been any deleting/blanking/mapping out been done ?
 
Does the indicated "188 miles since last DPF regen" fall into your ownership?
Yes, I pulled into my drive after a run, revs we’re up just over 1000 and fans sounded like a jet engine getting ready for takeoff, took it for a 40min round trip blast on the dual carriageway and when I got back all was normal. Didn’t have the DPF monitor at that point.
Just to clarify - the data indicates that the last regen finished 188 miles ago (416 minutes) - was the van in your possession at that time?
I just can't imagine how engine would do DPF regen without proper exhaust temperature readings.

just ran the app again while idling on the drive and it’s around 11.8
Was it now cold engine & exhaust? That would explain lower value now?

How could I found out if there has been any deleting/blanking/mapping out been done ?
Ask previous owner?
Is exhaust tailpipe inside sooty?
Is there AdBlue menu on the MFD - remaining range & fill-up amounts?

VCDS diagnostic tool would help to evaluate further, also OBDeleven helps? Need help how-to?
The exhaust temperatures of -40 °C surely are not normal -
Exhaust temperature sensors IDE07712...IDE07718
1753451725132.png
 
Just to clarify - the data indicates that the last regen finished 188 miles ago (416 minutes) - was the van in your possession at that time?
Yes, it was, regen happened as I pulled into my driveway, at least I assume it was regen, e.g. elevated revs, lots of fan noise and “hot smell” etc

I got the had OBD11 dongle app a few weeks ago but didn’t really know how to use it 😊 so wanted to get DPF monitor as it looked more user friendly, then found out it doesn’t like OBD11 so got Carista EVO dongle to use it with.
Have used both OBD and Carista to scan for faults, but apart from 1 fault relating to radio unit software, there’s nothing coming up.

Was it now cold engine & exhaust? That would explain lower value now?
Yes, we’ll, been sitting for about 30 mins, engine temp was around 65 degs

Ask previous owner?
Is exhaust tailpipe inside sooty?
Is there AdBlue menu on the MFD - remaining range & fill-up amounts?

Can’t get info on previous owner, bought it from VW Commercials Aberdeen but they don't seem very forthcoming with info once the deal has been done. Got it from them end of May, they serviced it and I’m sure he said they carried out a Dpf regen at that point, but that was approx 600+ miles or so ago.

It was back into them 2 weeks ago to get faulty rear aircon control motors replaced, and wheel tracking/balancing, but nothing engine related

Tailpipe has next to zero soot, very clean, only very light reddish brown residue left on the kitchen roll after rummaging around up there just now

Adblue is on the MFD, but shows remaining range - - - - km

All very odd …
 
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I got the had OBD11 dongle app a few weeks ago but didn’t really know how to use it
Good. Let's try to get some more details.

Connect the OBDeleven to your van (ignition on, engine off)

Control Units > Engine > Live data
Tick the following (ignore the header IDE...., the text will be in OBDeleven)
IDE00021 Engine RPM​
IDE00347 Air mass: actual value:​
IDE00434 Particle filter: soot mass calculated​
IDE00435 Particle filter: soot mass measured​
IDE00436 Particle filter: kilometers since last regeneration​
IDE04090 Exhaust temperature bank 1​
IDE07744 Particle filter: air pressure sensor 1 bank 1: raw value​
IDE07756 Exhaust recirc.valve 1 bank 1: posit.feedback - Specified value​
IDE07757 Exhaust recirc.valve 1 bank 1: posit.feedback - Actual value​
Please make screenshots of all the values - they'll be on several screens.
Start the engine - idle​
Again please make screenshots of all the values.
 
Ok, screenshots as requested 😬
Thank you - that was quick.

First - engine off - to verify the "baseline"​

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(Above) EGR valve closed - value in the neighbourhood of zero - thus no recirculation. Normal when waiting for cranking start.


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(Above) Pressure across the DPF close to zero (raw value, not compensated for plain zero) - normal.


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(Above) Air flow - as expected engine off.


1753467093641.png
Well, all four sensors are reported as installed but clearly three of them report false values. -40 °C is the minimum many sensors can report, also open circuit would manifest itself as -40°C.


Next - engine idling at 825 RPM​


1753467477817.png

(Above) EGR valve position commanded (specified) and actual position very close to each other as expected. Also the 45% position is normal for idle.
However...

1753467605181.png

(Above) 16.50 g/s at 825 RPM idle with exhaust gas recirculation at 45% does not match - I'd say EGR valve/cooler has been blanked off. At these conditions normal air flow would be about 8.5 g/s. Thus actually no recirculation, all the air is passed straight through the engine.

1753467848536.png
(Above) Now also fairly high pressure across the DPF has got the explanation. As engine is sucking double the normal amount of air, naturally also the pressure in the DPF is doubled.
Tailpipe has next to zero soot, very clean, only very light reddish brown residue left on the kitchen roll after rummaging around up there just now
As the pressure reading is alive and seems to give correct numbers AND there is no soot in the tailpipe it looks like the DPF is still in there and working correctly at the moment.

DPF regeneration​

Just to clarify - the data indicates that the last regen finished 188 miles ago (416 minutes) - was the van in your possession at that time?
Yes, it was, regen happened as I pulled into my driveway, at least I assume it was regen, e.g. elevated revs, lots of fan noise and “hot smell” etc
Got it from them and of May, they serviced it and I’m sure he said they carried out a Dpf regen at that point, but that was approx 600+ miles or so ago.
Ok, so the engine somehow actually does DPF regenerations. Also 600 miles without DPF regeneration would have already caused much higher pressures across the DPF.


1753468649288.png
(Above) Normally those values would have changed somewhat during 30 minutes driving in post #1. Normally the calculated is between 6 and 30 grams, the latter being the trigger value for a DPF regen.

AdBlue​

Adblue is on the MFD, but shows remaining range - - - - km
Most likely mapped out

My guess -​

The DPF regeneration triggering is somehow modified to work without normal soot calculations. Possibly simply based on distance since last regen or possibly time since last regen. It might actually work somewhat. As during the regeneration there is no soot-countdown also duration has to be guessed, but some 20 minutes would be a fairly good guess.

My concern -​

Normally the engine regulates DPF temperature based on sensors 2-4 (which all report now -40°C).
Sensor 1 is right off the engine - before turbos.
Sensor 2 is (after turbos) before catalytic converter - the converter raises and stabilises exhaust temperature for DPF regeneration
Sensor 3 measures exhaust temperature entering the DPF
Sensor 4 measures exhaust temperature exiting the DPF

Without sensors 2-4 there is no feedback whether the temperature is too low, or too high. Too low would not be dangerous, just wouldn't clear the DPF fully. Whereas too high temperature might be even catastrofic - normally the DPF regeneration runs at 600...650 °C - so there is not much room for error upwards - before meltdown.
 
Thanks for your time and expertise mmi, much appreciated, it all sort of makes sense to this novice, though the last bit about meltdown is concerning.

So, known “forced” regen by VW Aberdeen when they did the oil/filter change and service when I picked the van up for first time - 27th May - 29306 miles.

Last recorded regen going by DPF monitor data - 27th June - 29934 miles (I took screenshot of mileage just before heading out that morning, it was 29,930)

I experienced what I believe to be a “normal” regen somewhere between the two, so somewhere in that 628 miles, though there could have been more when driving and I may not have known.

What we don’t know going by all of the above is how the engine management system knew that a regen was required and when to initiate it, unless as you say someone has put in some sort of time or mileage trigger.

I guess I’ll keep that OBD plugged in and monitor it for a while to see when/what mileage it regens again. I’ll be taking it on a 600+ mile round trip towing a caravan in the next week or so 😳 so that should give me plenty more data, and if there’s going to be any issues, I guess they’ll manifest then.

Just hope the VW Approved Used warranty and breakdown cover that I got with the van is up-to-scratch 😬
 
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Just hope the VW Approved Used warranty and breakdown cover that I got with the van is up-to-scratch 😬
Have to considered to ask the dealer to restore engine control unit back to factory configuration? In case there would be problems I would think that such a weird setup would be difficult to diagnose and maintain as VW won't touch it I'm afraid.
 
Have to considered to ask the dealer to restore engine control unit back to factory configuration? In case there would be problems I would think that such a weird setup would be difficult to diagnose and maintain as VW won't touch it I'm afraid.
Very much considering taking the van back to them …
 
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Hi @mmi, as a bit of an update, I have driven another 277 miles since I posted the above, with around 180 miles of that pulling a caravan. Van running smoothly and pulled like a train.

According to DPF monitor, OBD11 and Carista that's now 413 miles / 850 mins since last regen, still showing 0g soot calculated and -40 in/out temp readings, and no sign of any other sort of time or mileage trigger.

The only thing that's really changed is the Oil Ash Residue has increased from 19.84g to 20.04g over those 277 miles
One additional thing I saw in the OBD11 live data - Particle filter, fuel consumption since last regeneration 65.34L, and the ave fuel consumption on the MFD was approx 28mpg over that 277 miles, so not great consumption numbers.

With the poor fuel consumption and the oil ash residue climbing at around 0.07g per 100 miles, is it possible its constantly regenerating, or trying to ?
 
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According to DPF monitor, OBD11 and Carista that's now 413 miles / 850 mins since last regen, still showing 0g soot calculated and -40 in/out temp readings, and no sign of any other sort of time or mileage trigger.
A possible triggering number could be 750 km = 466 miles. It's used on some engines as a last-ditch trigger if no other event triggers the DPF regen. Never managed to get that far.

pulling a caravan
the ave fuel consumption on the MFD was approx 28mpg over that 277 miles, so not great consumption numbers.
Well, at first glance looks pretty good to me - depends certainly of head cross section, weight of the caravan, speed, etc.

the oil ash residue climbing at around 0.07g per 100 miles
Normal - it's oil ash residue, not the soot. Soot burns completely, oil and it's additives leave some residue. That rate would fill the DPF in 160 thousand miles (total mileage)

One additional thing I saw in the OBD11 live data - Particle filter, fuel consumption since last regeneration 65.34L, and the ave fuel consumption on the MFD was approx 28mpg over that 277 miles, so not great consumption numbers.
With the poor fuel consumption and the oil ash residue climbing at around 0.07g per 100 miles, is it possible its constantly regenerating, or trying to ?
If it was regenerating you would see in the OBD11 data fuel consumption figures less than 25 mpg (calculating the distance & fuel used). The MFD pretty much just ignores the extra fuel used for DPF regen as it would shock most. See below

For comparison - my CXEB engine regenerates the DPF when the counter reaches 20 litres (average over 3 last years, highest been 44 litres by doing full day on motorway reaching 310 miles before a regen)

 
A possible triggering number could be 750 km = 466 miles. It's used on some engines as a last-ditch trigger if no other event triggers the DPF regen. Never managed to get that far.
Ok, not far from that now, will take it for another spin tonight and see if anything happens.
Well, at first glance looks pretty good to me - depends certainly of head cross section, weight of the caravan, speed, etc.
Ok, the 180 miles I did with the caravan (not much wind, 1.5ton caravan, lots of winding roads) gave approx 23mpg according to mfd, the last 100 miles nudged that overall consumption up to ~28mpg (dual carriageway, 70mph, cruise control on, DSG doing its thing). So I guess overall it’s not terrible.


Checked the oil against an oil check I did 2 months and 850 miles ago, reading exactly same on dipstick, doesn’t seem ta have lowered at all.

Thanks once again for your input, will try and digest the info in the link later tonight …
 
With some of the "weird" sensor outputs (DPF temperatures, soot levels etc) I wonder if it could be a wiring issue?
 
With some of the "weird" sensor outputs (DPF temperatures, soot levels etc) I wonder if it could be a wiring issue?
Possibly manfrotto, though I wouldn’t have a clue where to start looking for that. I only bought it from VW Commercials in Aberdeen 2 months ago, since then it’s been back to them to sort sort wheel wobble & tracking, and some air con motor/actuator faults that came up on an OBD11 scanner when I first tried it. They said they’ve fixed all that did a full diagnostic scan to check for any other faults, that was 2 weeks ago, then a week ago I got the DPF Monitor app to see if I could learn a bit about regens etc and saw all these weird readings, and been scratching my head ever since.

The adblue reading of - - - - km range has always been there, but I’m convinced I saw a post either on here or somewhere else that said it will only show km left when it reaches a certain level, so didn’t think much of it until now.

I guess I need to take it back to them again and ask them to explain what I’m seeing. If it wasn’t for the DPF Monitor and mmi’s guidance on the OBD11 scans I would be none the wiser as there’s no dash errors, the van runs very smoothly, and pulls the caravan easily, I’m kinda at a loss …
 
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The adblue reading of - - - - km range has always been there, but I’m convinced I saw a post either on here or somewhere else that said it will only show km left when it reaches a certain level, so didn’t think much of it until now.


It will always show you the miles left but only from a certain level it will show you how much to top it up with
 
Just as a bit of an update, I called the dealership today and told them about the odd readings etc, after speaking to the techs, the guy called me back and said they suspect the previous owner may have remapped it, but not sure until they have a look, so it’s booked in for investigation and resolution. Will post outcome once I know …
 
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