Anyone with working knowledge of Noise Abatement Notices / Env-Health depts?

[Ads_Essex]

As per the thread, I’m hoping someone on here can help me understand what is deemed reasonable by my local authority environmental health department.


I’m currently renovating the father-in-law’s flat, which is on the second / top floor of a 60’s build low-rise (concrete floors, cavity walls, external stairways). It’s not been decorated in years so everything is being changed. Works started in November time and Covid has meant that I’ve been working there alone, and that some jobs have dragged whilst I’ve waited on merchants getting stock back on to the shelves.

I’d informed the neighbour on the first floor - who’s noisy - about the impending works. She knocked one Wednesday morning complaining about me taking up the carpet grippers on the stairs, and so I agreed to start work at 0900 and not 0800.

I then received a letter from environmental health informing me that a complaint of power tools being used had been lodged and that works must only take place during permitted hours.
I telephoned the council and informed them of the situation, told them where we were with the works, and was told that all sounded well and I shouldn’t worry.
Since then I’ve kept to those hours, and would spend the occasional evening or Sunday there only doing silent works (measuring, painting etc).

I then get a visit from the council last Thursday. I was using an oscillating tool at the time, which seemed to have upset him. I showed them around and informed them of what works were left (partial bathroom tiling, a room to plaster and paint, and stairs to sand and varnish) and they calmed down.
Their issue is the time that is being taken to complete the works, it seems.

I told the council that I couldn’t give a specific time frame, reminded them I could only work on my own in between shifts at work, and reminded them that the flat would often be unoccupied (and therefore silent) so up to six days a week at times.


I’ve still got plenty to do and so am keen to learn of any experience anyone has, either side of the fence, to help me understand exactly what reasonable is.

 

[DaveD]

As per the thread, I’m hoping someone on here can help me understand what is deemed reasonable by my local authority environmental health department.


I’m currently renovating the father-in-law’s flat, which is on the second / top floor of a 60’s build low-rise (concrete floors, cavity walls, external stairways). It’s not been decorated in years so everything is being changed. Works started in November time and Covid has meant that I’ve been working there alone, and that some jobs have dragged whilst I’ve waited on merchants getting stock back on to the shelves.

I’d informed the neighbour on the first floor - who’s noisy - about the impending works. She knocked one Wednesday morning complaining about me taking up the carpet grippers on the stairs, and so I agreed to start work at 0900 and not 0800.

I then received a letter from environmental health informing me that a complaint of power tools being used had been lodged and that works must only take place during permitted hours.
I telephoned the council and informed them of the situation, told them where we were with the works, and was told that all sounded well and I shouldn’t worry.
Since then I’ve kept to those hours, and would spend the occasional evening or Sunday there only doing silent works (measuring, painting etc).

I then get a visit from the council last Thursday. I was using an oscillating tool at the time, which seemed to have upset him. I showed them around and informed them of what works were left (partial bathroom tiling, a room to plaster and paint, and stairs to sand and varnish) and they calmed down.
Their issue is the time that is being taken to complete the works, it seems.

I told the council that I couldn’t give a specific time frame, reminded them I could only work on my own in between shifts at work, and reminded them that the flat would often be unoccupied (and therefore silent) so up to six days a week at times.


I’ve still got plenty to do and so am keen to learn of any experience anyone has, either side of the fence, to help me understand exactly what reasonable is.

The term "reasonable" is subjective.
You've already demonstrated that you are considerate by agreeing to start at 9.00 instead of 8.00.
There is no way to carry out the work that you need to do without the use of power tools and subsequent noise and you are doing it as quickly as you can in the circumstances. You are very different to a noisy neighbour playing loud music at 2.00 AM, the people the council are there to deal with.
It sounds like a disgruntled neighbour is complaining. If it were me I'd just get on with the job and ignore the council until they take court action, which they won't because they know that they would lose.
As a Police person I used to go to loads of these jobs to "support" the council people who were scared of getting a kicking at some addresses, they always said that if the noise you are making is unavoidable and short term, and you are doing your best to be reasonable then it's not a matter for them.

 

[Pauly]

I’m a sparky and had occasions where we have been doing residential works with builders on tight schedules and have been allowed to do pretty much what we want
If people complain they we are asked by council not to make noise outside of 7am-7pm and not on sundays

 

[JOG]

Don’t worry - you’re doing all the right things. Council have popped out and seen you - great, they get to explain to the neighbour that they’ve listened to concerns and spoken with you! I doubt the council is going to take this any further! However, public bodies will sometimes do crazy things and spend good money perusing an argument they know the will lose! (Hmmm....£500,000 splashed defending themselves in Scotland recently despite being told, in writing and in no uncertain terms, by their own legal advisors that they would lose!!!!) So, cover your ass: keep a notebook in the flat to make a note of every time you visit to work on it and start/finish times when using any power tools. On the first page of the notebook, just write in it that you decided to record activities following visit from Council! If anything comes of this, just slap the notebook down in front of the adjudicator/beak! (Contemporaneous records are pure porn for them!)

Remember, noise is measured in decibels, not reasonableness! That is how behaviours are assessed!

 

[JOG]

The term "reasonable" is subjective.
You've already demonstrated that you are considerate by agreeing to start at 9.00 instead of 8.00.
There is no way to carry out the work that you need to do without the use of power tools and subsequent noise and you are doing it as quickly as you can in the circumstances. You are very different to a noisy neighbour playing loud music at 2.00 AM, the people the council are there to deal with.
It sounds like a disgruntled neighbour is complaining. If it were me I'd just get on with the job and ignore the council until they take court action, which they won't because they know that they would lose.
As a Police person I used to go to loads of these jobs to "support" the council people who were scared of getting a kicking at some addresses, they always said that if the noise you are making is unavoidable and short term, and you are doing your best to be reasonable then it's not a matter for them.

And sometimes if such council bod was an obnoxious idiot anyway, plod might accidentally fail to intervene before first good kick landed well...... allegedly, of course!!!

 

[DaveD]

And sometimes if such council bod was an obnoxious idiot anyway, plod might accidentally fail to intervene before first good kick landed well...... allegedly, of course!!!

To be fair, most of the council staff I saw were very sensible and weren't interested in these serial complainers who feel aggrieved that they were woken at the ungodly hour of 9.00 AM by somebody who actually works!

 

[JOG]

To be fair, most of the council staff I saw were very sensible and weren't interested in these serial complainers who feel aggrieved that they were woken at the ungodly hour of 9.00 AM by somebody who actually works!

@DaveD - I agree! My post was me pulling your leg. Unfortunately, the council’s serial complainers are often “frequent flyers” with the local custody suite too! Funny correlation that, eh?!!

 

[Ricardo T]

You should find your local council will have 'noise' guidelines on their website.

 

[BenR]

I was on a job today parked legally on the street and the neighbour knocked on and asked that we move the van as they are working from home and don’t want to look out the window and see vans. The house is a big detached house some distance from the road. Some people are not happy unless they’re complaining about something. Gives them an enormous sense of self importance. I thought they’d have been happy looking out on such a lovely van

 

[DaveD]

@DaveD - I agree! My post was me pulling your leg. Unfortunately, the council’s serial complainers are often “frequent flyers” with the local custody suite too! Funny correlation that, eh?!!

You're spot on with that, like the thugs that beat people up every Friday night then moan when they get a little bruise!

 

[DaveD]

I was on a job today parked legally on the street and the neighbour knocked on and asked that we move the van as they are working from home and don’t want to look out the window and see vans. The house is a big detached house some distance from the road. Some people are not happy unless they’re complaining about something. Gives them an enormous sense of self importance. I thought they’d have been happy looking out on such a lovely van

They'll be happy to see a van outside when they've got a plumbing problem, I hope you spoiled their day.

 

[BenR]

No, I moved the van and fed their ego instead!

 

[Paynewright]

I know you can get noise apps that measures decibels - I wonder if there is one that measures max DB over a period of time? Another piece of data / evidence for your log.

 

[JOG]

I know you can get noise apps that measures decibels - I wonder if there is one that measures max DB over a period of time? Another piece of data / evidence for your log.

Nope, no need! The onus is on the prosecution to demonstrate the noise level breach and the source and the protracted period and, and, and.....! The defence does not need to do any of the above. Most power tools have a little sticker on them that gives the manufacturer’s declared dB level. “I was using this power tool that has a declared dB level of xyz at the following times” is sufficient!

 

[Gavinda]

To put it bluntly, f@#k em. Where ever you go and whatever you do someone will take exception to it, just be reasonable, stay calm and polite and let them wind themselves up about it. Things like this really piss me off as you can almost guarantee that those who complain when something (barely) affects them would be in complete disbelief that someone would have anything to say if the roles were reversed.

 

[JOG]

I was on a job today parked legally on the street and the neighbour knocked on and asked that we move the van as they are working from home and don’t want to look out the window and see vans. The house is a big detached house some distance from the road. Some people are not happy unless they’re complaining about something. Gives them an enormous sense of self importance. I thought they’d have been happy looking out on such a lovely van

Ha ha ha! A few years ago we were renovating the house...final stages...all trades were in....usual “last push” chaos. Next thing I know, local bobby rocks up following a complaint by neighbour about the vans on the road! All taxed, all insured, all parked legally on public highway, not my property! What can one do?!!!!

 

[huw169]

No, I moved the van and fed their ego instead!

You are a better person than me. I would not have moved it.

 

[BenR]

I bet you know which d!ckhead rang them. They don’t get invited to the bbq anymore @JOG

 

[BenR]

You are a better person than me. I would not have moved it.

The foreman asked me very nicely!

 

[JOG]

I bet you know which d!ckhead rang them. They don’t get invited to the bbq anymore @JOG

Yep! I even told bobby who complained, but he was a bit embarrassed by then as I had just finished giving him a dressing down. In fairness, it didn’t help that I’d just had a #4 haircut and admittedly looked like a “person of interest” on Crimewatch!