Any Lawyers on the forum?

[Skyliner33]

Last night the storm blew down a fence that the farmer of the field had erected behind my fence. It’s knocked my fence down and broken the concrete post and other bits. Will he have to pay and how do I go about getting this resolved. He is a complete £#*(=£- so I am anticipating a battle.

 

[JOG]

Thorny one! I’m not a lawyer but please get some pics of the state of his fence. That it was storm damage is the niggle here as he didn’t bust your fence, an “act of nature” did. Therefore, the damage to your fence is your responsibility. I suspect the route you’d have to explore is whether he took reasonable care. This becomes a very muddy subject as you’d seek to remove the “act of nature” defence and demonstrate his failure.

The way to look at “act of nature” is to consider if that fence panel blew in from the next county and smashed your fence - you’d have to fix your fence! That the same act of nature blew in your neighbour’s fence panel is treated the same way - you have to fix your fence!

I wouldn’t spend good money going to court over this. Have a friendly conversation with him, even if he is a prat and see whether he’d stick his hand in his pocket. From what you say, you may not be successful. Maybe try “going halves” on a single strong fence? (I got burnt on that one myself: neighbour agreed to share cost of materials - I spent about £1800 and never saw a penny! No, we don’t accept their parcels if they’re out!)

Sorry for bad news - I hope a proper legal bod tells you that I’m talking through my hat (again!!!!)

 

[Skyliner33]

@JOG thanks I understand what you are saying. My thoughts are that as he didn’t put the fence up properly he is liable. He just dug a hole and put the wooden post in. No concrete or anything so in my opinion the fence wasnt erected properly. But I don’t know how this affects it legally.

 

[JOG]

Hiya,

That’s why my first comment was to take pics of the state of his fence!

Remember, HE didn’t then pull the post or panel out and throw it against your fence, an “act of nature” did.

Consider this analogy: imagine that he had a load of posts and panels delivered last week and they were stacked in his garden ready for him to put up a fence this week. In court, you’d try to argue two points;

1 - that it wasn’t an act of nature (ie ignore that he didn’t physically pick up a panel and throw it at your fence)

2 - but that he failed to take reasonable care to secure his delivery (ie he knew full well a storm was coming, the Met Office had issued red alerts etc and any normal person would have done that (the “reasonable” test))

Now, coming back to the situation, putting up a crappy fence as you described is like failing to secure in the analogy above. A “reasonable” person would dig a proper hole and secure the post in concrete etc.

It becomes a very muddy issue and I think it is going to be difficult to satisfy the first point though (asking a court/adjudicator to set aside the “act of nature” defence) and to consider the matter solely on the second point (“reasonable care”.)

I’m not a lawyer and I’d love a lawyer to tell me that I’m talking bollox! It is more that you have an unneighbourly neighbour and you’re angry/burned at being out of pocket because of him. A bitter pill as it may be to swallow, think hard before throwing good money after bad on a case that would be very hard to win (my personal view) only for the bugger to be able to brag in the pub how you lost.

As it stands, others see him for what he is and if he doesn’t “do the right thing” will see that too. You have the high moral ground, even if the law doesn’t favour the moral position over the technical legal one.

Edit: remove a duplication

 

[Loz]

@JOG thanks I understand what you are saying. My thoughts are that as he didn’t put the fence up properly he is liable. He just dug a hole and put the wooden post in. No concrete or anything so in my opinion the fence wasnt erected properly. But I don’t know how this affects it legally.

most farmers put up fences by just pushing posts into the soil, they don’t use concrete etc, so you can’t use that, but if it wasn’t sturdy enough then it was not of sound construction, and he will always claim it was. Just ask him to replace/repair yours as he does his. If he agrees then he has accepted liability.

 

[Runwithscissors]

Fence looks like it would been rotted @ underground ...usually this is the cause when wind picks up it takes them over ....

Can not give legal advice...however
Eg ... if neighbours tree blows over & takes your fence out
He is responsible for the tree & yours is the fence..

 

[VanDamMan]

Hi …I’d ring your insurance company to request advice …just in case they use the Act of God clause so no one gets a payout..Storm Damage is hard to claim against and hard to claim on negligence as I assume prior to the storm the farmers fence wasn’t an issue..
we also had structures blown over and damaged…..everything in the garden is certainly not rosy

 

[Skyliner33]

OK, thanks all for the advice, guess I will need to replace my fence. Lickily it is just 1 concrete post and 2 concrete bits the fence panel sit on that are damaged.

 

[JOG]

That’s your backstop position! I’d still “have a word” and ask the bugger to put it right or contribute to the cost!

Good move to step back from the legal route though - the law is an ass!

 

[Bigsidavies]

Can you not wait until he replaces his fence, then remove yours completely and hey presto-a slightly bigger garden.

 

[Skyliner33]

Can you not wait until he replaces his fence, then remove yours completely and hey presto-a slightly bigger garden.

I did have that idea before - however there is 1 major drawback. Slightly bigger garden = slightly more gardening.

 

[The Bear78]

Unfortunately I think it would be difficult to prove beyond any doubt that his fence was solely responsible for knocking yours down. He could argue that the wind knocked them both down or even that his was resting on yours and then the wind knocked yours down.
Both are cobblers of course but as he's an arse you have to expect nonsense excuses.

Out of interest who owns the fence ie. who has responsibility on the property title?

 

[Paynewright]

I have read a few legal dispute threads on pistonheads and the general consensus is that the only winners in relatively minor matters are the lawyers in the fees they earn.

Its only a couple of hundred pounds and a bit of effort to sort it. Check with your insurers (do you have legal advice included?) and discuss with the farmer, but DIY will probably be your fall back position.

 

[JOG]

Unfortunately I think it would be difficult to prove beyond any doubt that his fence was solely responsible for knocking yours down. He could argue that the wind knocked them both down or even that his was resting on yours and then the wind knocked yours down.
Both are cobblers of course but as he's an arse you have to expect nonsense excuses.

Out of interest who owns the fence ie. who has responsibility on the property title?

Only issue is that a fence can’t be held responsible! (What could the fence do differently?!!!)

 

[DXX]

Don’t mess with farmers, I’ve seen a few take the law into their own hands and get away with it.

 

[JOG]

Don’t mess with farmers, I’ve seen a few take the law into their own hands and get away with it.

Absolutely agree! You could wake up one morning to the view of a very ugly store or discover that he has diversified into rearing ducks/geese (fkin smelly!!!)

 

[DXX]

Ever tried T cutting a tractor tyre mark of the bonnet off your car.

 

[Phil_G]

FWIW my own take on this is that s--- happens, its a fence.

 

[The Bear78]

Only issue is that a fence can’t be held responsible! (What could the fence do differently?!!!)

True!
But someone owns the boundary to the properties.