£4 Low Temperature (Charge) Protection For Batteries.

[Samro]

Whilst I have my seats removed, I thought I'd take the opportunity to have an experiment with one of these:

W1209 Temperature control Switch

The W1209 is an incredibly low cost yet highly functional thermostat controller. With this module (HCTHER0006) you can intelligently control power to most types of electrical device based on the temperature sensed by the included high accuracy NTC temperature sensor. Although this module has an...

hobbycomponents.com

After satisfying myself that it was fit for the intended purpose, I have wired it to switch the remote loop from the DC-DC charger. With this switch powered from the starter battery, its function is simply to turn off when it is below 5 degrees. (I chose 5 degrees but this can be set at whatever you like.)


This will prevent the DC-DC from from throwing 30A at a very cold lifepo4 battery. (I know that the internal BMS should do this job, but for £4 its worth the extra piece of mind!)

#keennottoburnmynewvan

 

[Dellmassive]

looks good . . .

we looked into that unit before.

Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?

LifOS - LiFOS Advanced Lithium Power (https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/231bdcf7/files/uploaded/Lifos 68 V2 - A4 Brochure.pdf) 68AH Lithium Battery . Thats what I've got

www.t6forum.com

2021:

DollaTek -50-110°C W1209 DC 12V Digital Mini Thermostat Temperature Controller Control Switch Sensor Module: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

DollaTek -50-110°C W1209 DC 12V Digital Mini Thermostat Temperature Controller Control Switch Sensor Module: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

amzn.to

 

[Samro]

looks good . . .

we looked into that unit before.

Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?

LifOS - LiFOS Advanced Lithium Power (https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/231bdcf7/files/uploaded/Lifos 68 V2 - A4 Brochure.pdf) 68AH Lithium Battery . Thats what I've got

www.t6forum.com

View attachment 136061




2021:

DollaTek -50-110°C W1209 DC 12V Digital Mini Thermostat Temperature Controller Control Switch Sensor Module: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

DollaTek -50-110°C W1209 DC 12V Digital Mini Thermostat Temperature Controller Control Switch Sensor Module: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

amzn.to

View attachment 136062

Dammit! I thought i had stumbled upon a cheap hack that everyone would be delighted with!
Sorry to duplicate this topic.

 

[Dellmassive]

lol . . .

so are you using the Orion's AUTO on/off feature?

then just cutting the H/L Loop?

++++++++++++++

during previous testing we found the a lot of the DC-DC chargers have the "Auto VSR" feature where they power-up and come on when the starter battery voltage come up (say above 13.2v) when engine was running. - this can cause some issues when implementing the LTD.

even if the IGN feed was disabled.

+++++++++++++++

Love the setup BTW.

 

[Samro]

What were the issues? We use these all these time in full Auto Mode with switching on the H/L and all has been ok so far. What have I missed?

 

[Dellmassive]

nothing your fine . . .

but other units form different manufactures will come to life when they see the engine running voltage on the starter battery.

the issue is trying to stop them when its cold. . . . . interrupting the IGN doesn't stop them from coming to life.

looks like the Victron H/L loop is running as a HARD ON/OFF switch?


previous testing. .. . .

Vic Orion - [Guide] DC-DC Charger (for leisure battery) -- How I Done It --

Auto VSR feature - [Guide] DC-DC Charger (for leisure battery) -- How I Done It --

1charger - both batteries - Charging Starter and Leisure batteries with same charger - Victron

sub zero Lifepo4 - Low temperature lithium battery

 

[Samro]

nothing your fine . . .

but other units form different manufactures will come to life when they see the engine running voltage on the starter battery.

the issue is trying to stop them when its cold. . . . . interrupting the IGN doesn't stop them from coming to life.

looks like the Victron H/L loop is running as a HARD ON/OFF switch?


previous testing. .. . .

Vic Orion - [Guide] DC-DC Charger (for leisure battery) -- How I Done It --

Auto VSR feature - [Guide] DC-DC Charger (for leisure battery) -- How I Done It --

1charger - both batteries - Charging Starter and Leisure batteries with same charger - Victron

sub zero Lifepo4 - Low temperature lithium battery

Good news. Thanks. I had visions of running a sense wire which would of been a palaver now!

 

[moodsterT6]

Hi, @Samro did you use one of these in your install Orion-Tr DC-DC Charger Isolated remote cable - Victron Energy

trying to work out if it’s required. I will be powering the temp relay from the leisure battery so I think it’s required. i couldn’t make out from your pics how you wired it.

Cheers.

 

[Samro]

Hi, @Samro did you use one of these in your install Orion-Tr DC-DC Charger Isolated remote cable - Victron Energy

trying to work out if it’s required. I will be powering the temp relay from the leisure battery so I think it’s required. i couldn’t make out from your pics how you wired it.

Cheers.

No, this fancy cable is not required.
I simply included the switch in the remote loop, so this couldn't be simpler in terms of wiring:
I took my +ve feed from the input side of my DCDC.
The switched load on the switch is the H/L loop of the DCDC.

Note that the switch should really be powered from the starter battery, (as the leisure bank could discharge and switch off following a lower temp situation over an extended cold spell.)

I still am a bit unsure if installing this little device is necessary, as the internal BMS of my lithium battery should prevent charging in a low temp environment, but I don't have any access to the BMS and didn't want to solely rely on the fact that the BMS would provide this protection.

I have seen this little switch operate exactly as I intended over the winter and am 100% happy that it is going what I wanted.

This said, I am about to do a second install on a different van, this time using a Roamer under seat battery which has Bluetooth access to the BMS. Due to the fact that this battery has remote BT access, the BMS is much more visible and tuneable so I am not bothering with the additional temp cut out. I shall monitor how this goes and may well find that this is required at a later date!

The fancy cable that you are referring to is required when using an external Victron BMS as shown below. If you are simply switching the H/L loop this cable is not required.



Edit: post edited after initially slightly misunderstanding the original question.

 

[moodsterT6]

No, this fancy cable is not required.
I simply included the switch in the remote loop, so this couldn't be simpler in terms of wiring:
I took my +ve feed from the input side of my DCDC.
The switched load on the switch is the H/L loop of the DCDC.

Note that the switch needs powering from the starter battery, (as it cannot be powered by the leisure bank as it would switch off and never come back on following a lower temp power down.)

I still am a bit unsure if installing this little device is necessary, as the internal BMS of my lithium battery should prevent charging in a low temp environment, but I don't have any access to the BMS and didn't want to solely rely on the fact that the BMS would provide this protection.

I have seen this little switch operate exactly as I intended over the winter and am 100% happy that it is going what I wanted.

This said, I am about to do a second install on a different van, this time using a Roamer under seat battery which has Bluetooth access to the BMS. Due to the fact that this battery has remote BT access, the BMS is much more visible and tuneable so I am not bothering with the additional temp cut out. I shall monitor how this goes and may well find that this is required at a later date!

The fancy cable that you are referring to is required when using an external Victron BMS as shown below. If you are simply switching the H/L loop this cable is not required.
View attachment 149084


Edit: post edited after initially slightly misunderstanding the original question.

Thank you for the detailed reply, it’s much appreciated

I couldn’t understand what that isolated cable actually does as the HL remote can just be switched, in fact it’s just a bridge wire by default so all the temp relay does is replace the bridge wire. Perhaps the Victron BMS applies an actual voltage via the charger input, not sure.

I’m going to be using an ignition live to override the engine shutdown detection so was concerned the isolated cable prevents a short but having looked at the diagrams a bit more I don’t see how that could happen as Victron supports the use of a 12V input (ignition live) to the L pin whilst also using a switch between the L/H pins.

Will be powering up sometime this week so will find out I guess!

Thanks again for your input.

Cheers.

 

[Samro]

Thank you for the detailed reply, it’s much appreciated

I couldn’t understand what that isolated cable actually does as the HL remote can just be switched, in fact it’s just a bridge wire by default so all the temp relay does is replace the bridge wire. Perhaps the Victron BMS applies an actual voltage via the charger input, not sure.

I’m going to be using an ignition live to override the engine shutdown detection so was concerned the isolated cable prevents a short but having looked at the diagrams a bit more I don’t see how that could happen as Victron supports the use of a 12V input (ignition live) to the L pin whilst also using a switch between the L/H pins.

Will be powering up sometime this week so will find out I guess!

Thanks again for your input.

Cheers.

No worries. I edited my response a little to explain about why I feel that it should be powered from the starter battery.

 

[moodsterT6]

@Samro its all fitted and works a treat thanks again for your help